Bylaw Proposals

cctbone · Member

Bylaw Proposals

Play with My Money · Senior Member

I would be open to that. I suggest funding different catagories by a percentage we deem appropriate, and including local political endeavors, raising public awareness (media, community info channals, supporting local candidates that support us), benevolence funds ( maybe forming our own honor guard for funerals and such), and I love the idea of supporting education like SFPA. Let's play with our money.

Perhaps there would be a commitee for this fund, where counties could submit their proposals. This could be an off-shoot from the treasurer.

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 19:14, 2004-09-18

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Lee,

I am open to that as well. MIssed you at our ALCO meeting. I hope to see you at the next (psssst..you work too much)<s>

Thanks,

Rod Billings

medicbill · Member

Those are all great ideas but the one thing that alsao has to be thought of is that part of the money would have to be set aside in a COPE fund. Politics play a big part in our job and we will need money and peoples time to be heard by the politicians. Each county would have thier own COPE committee to make decisions on how it would be used.

Bill Bower

Forfend · Senior Member

I suggest that you first figure out if you will be a per capita representation system or regional representative based. That is the key to the decision on whether or not you will see a pension, improve your job security, enhance benefits and master your working conditions. Per capita will always be dominated by salary instead of the other occupation benefits that give credibility and stability to the workforce.

Education is a good foundation but should be limited to educating shop stewards and affiliate leaders. If you wish to learn more about medicine and job skills improvements, negotiate that in your next contract. You should not spend your valuable union dollars on training that should be a benefit in your contract.

COPE is essential and members will need to learn how to navigate the confusing world of politics now that they have decided to become an EMS only union. Good luck.

cctbone · Member

Yes to COPE

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Forfend,

Excellent points. Glad you jumped in.

Medic_One · Senior Member

Are you HIGH!

COPE? That is SEIU's kill private EMS fund! We have absolutely no say in were the COPE money goes. COPE is an SEIU fund it is not a local fund. So it goes were SEIU wants it to go. Guess what gang, EMS is less than 1% of SEIU. Do you really think that is it going to go to EMS which is private, when SEIU is left wing pro government? John Kerry has pledged that if he is elected president that he will immediately create 100,000 more fire jobs. Really good for private EMS huh guys? Now let’s see were NAGE and SEIU stand...Do you know were the last dip into the COPE money went? 26 million dollars went to John Kerry! COPE, COPE! This is exactly what we don't want!

Wake up people!

Rdgoosmicp · Member

I beleive that COPE is a flawed idea in the old 250 ideals......

The ability to use that money for local politics is by far the key to our exisistance. As far as dues amount why only $3.......Lets keep the amount we pay now.......so that we can put forth a sizeable effort. But, If we do that, a set time frame of NO risk of a raise in dues will need to be accomplished.

This idea is coming from a very Anti-union guy, That believes as a GENERAL RULE that unions are a secondary form of tax guzzling, red tape creating, government. At the same time we work for an orginization that will send us out to pasture at the drop of a hat. So, yes to LOCAL COPE funds, local control, local eyes and ears, creating a better unioun from the bottom up rather than the other way around........A reverse pyramid if you will.

Mark Thomas Shasta

STRIFE · Senior Member

I agree with raising our dues up a few bucks. I think we will have plenty at that point to do a lot of the comunity outreach stuff that we wanted to do with nemsa.

snake911 · Veteran Member

Hey Medic -one,

John Kerry has also stated that when he is elected he will be overturing the Bush campaigns plan to outlaw mandatory OT. I dont know about you but OT pays for quite a bit of my salary. And Before you start ranting about how stupid I am, I know that our current contract cant be changed in regards to OT pay. But the one we negotiate in 2 years can. If its not required by labor law AMR is under no obligation to offer it to us. You can talk strikes all you want but we all know we cant realisically do that. Its an easier proposition just to have the feds mandate OT pay for anything over 40 hours worked in a week. Then we have no problem. Supporting Kerry or supporting Bush should go beyond what party you are registered for. Look at all the major issues and how they relate to your life before making statements. Mandatory OT is going to affect my life in far bigger ways that the creation of 100K fire jobs nationwide, a portion of which would be rural fire positions that have little direct effect on my job. Stop creating conflict for conflicts sake.

Medic_One · Senior Member

Brad,

You see this is exactly why IAEP has any support at all. It is because people like you who buy the BS just because 250 or IAEP says it.

Ok I am going to say this again. Bush's OT policy does not and will not effect you or me and it has nothing to do with our current contract. Why? it is because STATE OT LAWS THAT EXCEED THE FEDERAL LAW TAKE PRECIDENT. CALIFORNIA'S OT LAWS ARE BETTER AND THEREFORE ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE BUSH OT POLICY. This is like every other thing that comes from you people. All you 250/IAEP cheerleaders do is regurgitate uneducated, unverified IAEP/250 talking points that you have been spoon fed.

Get off your a$$es and ask someone other than an SEIU staff person what the truth is before you start worshiping at their shrines.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Could he be referring to the proposal for revamping FLSA? I'm not super savvy on this, but as I understand it this was a big deal, the Labor Commission was brought in, the proposal was defeated, and as of August 15 a new definition of who's management and who isn't (exempt, non-exempt) has become a federal criteria. I was under the impression that federal mandates force states to adhere. Kind of like how AMR sends out policies superceding others.

Forfend · Senior Member

You mean the volumes of policies that came with my paycheck? Did 250 ok these new policies? How am I to understand the policies? Will IAEP at least send out interpretations of policies as they continue to be placed in service? Too many rules. Working conditions worsen with excessive rules. I never heard of State Law being superior to Federal Law. If State Law does supercede Federal Law, so what? Arnold is in office and has absolute control of the state because everybody likes Arnold movies. Arnold will do all that he can to undermine overtime, fair pay, parity, binding arbitration (CDF binding arbitration was vetoed by Arnold), no increase in minimum wage. Arnold wants California to be a right to work state. These are very bad times for labor at the legislative level.

It doesn't seem like the "cat fights are over."

Good bye.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Mark,

I couldn't agree with you more. There needs to be a re-vamping of the COPE funds. I believe people, despite voting in IAEP, are tired of the "business as usual" mentality from SEIU. There have been times when I have been. And in those times, it is okay to question the stances and actions of your own union. That is why involvement is critical.

I would like to see IAEP be more locally focused as far as politics go. I think we all need to research this and come up with alternatives to the way SEIU conducted its business in the past. Nooffense to Kerry or Bush, but giving them huge proportions of money does me no good at the local level when I'm trying to win support on a county Board of Supervisors. Yes, we have given money to those that have run for these local government offices, but there are other unions that are even more supportive. We need to do better here.

Thank you,

Rod Billings, Shop Steward, AMR CoCo Operations

STRIFE · Senior Member

Medic one,
See YOUR not getting it. I don't appreciate you insulting Brad repeatedly. You see, we know the california rules regarding overtime. What you don't understand is that it is unfair across the board, to cut overtime pay for any workers. As a labor group, we need to support general beliefs and ethics. Cutting overtime pay for any workers in unnaceptable. Also, just because we have certain laws here, does not mean that at some point they could be altered, if the overtime cut bill passes. I say we fight it from the begining, so it CAN never affect us, what is so wrong with that? I totally understand that you support Bush, thats awesome, I guess for some of us who don't make over $300,000 a year, we actually have to fight the tax cuts for the rich and big business, and fight the tax increases for the middle and lower class incomes. Just my opinion, which shouldn't go very far.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Forfend,

Hope you will return after the fur stops flying. As far as I know, there has been no "meet and confer" with management over policies since this vote was unleashed. My position is that they are not in effect due to that missing component. These policies obviously affect working conditions and the rules of the CBA apply.

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 18:24, 2004-09-19

jsahagun · Member

Hey Guys,

I think what Bill was trying to establish is that we should have our own COPE fund or something similar. Just because it is called COPE does not mean the money will flow straight from our hands to SEIU. In fact I believe the intention is to support local canidates and political causes that support EMS. If your worried about the name of the fund then call it the political action fund. Also these funds could be used to support national causes if we should so choose. However the International is largely responsible for supporting politics with our best intrest in mind on the national level. Also I must point out that the four field reps that we will recieve will be provided by the International and their salaries will not come from the funds that are returned to us.

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

Paramaniac · Senior Member

<lmfao> Considering your republican views, that must have been hard to say....specifically...using COPE funds at the national level. Somehow I don't think any of Rush's friends will see any of that money!! (Jon, intended as comical only)<wink>

The intent then needs to be clarified. Look, I understand that when having a democrat in the White House, it stands reasonable that the NLRB will be more swayed by labor. However, I'm just not prepared to give our funds over to the Democrats when we've got people looking at re-election right here at home. I can think of a couple of CoCo supervisors that need a wake up call, can you??<evil grin>

Furthermore, one of the reasons why IAEP came into play is because people do want an EMS-only union. NEMSA was right in this endeavor. I do not want to go right back into it, utilizing the same SEIU principles. I know this may **** Bill or other SEIU people off, but this is a brand new union. Let's try thinking outside the box. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Let's try to come up with our own ideas that work for us, EMS personnel.

Anyway, I'm sure that may stir things up a bit. Let's see what others have to say. Ideas from everyone right now is critical to the formation of this union.

Thank you,

Rod Billings, Shop Steward, AMR CoCo Operations

Forfend · Senior Member

Play with my money,

I will be back. I just want to be part of solution and direction. I'm not one to argue with anybody. Meet and confer is hard to do and I appreciate the stewards that take the boss to task and keep our job reasonable. Establishing who the boss of IAEP is also a subject I wish to avoid. None of this matters. All that is important is that we work as a team to keep up with the cost of living and establish credibility in our communities.

I will always watch what you folks are saying though. I have learned more on these boards than I have in my entire work life.

jsahagun · Member

Rod,

Yes, it was a very difficult thing for me to say knowing that a large portion of my dues in the past have gone to canidates whom I would normally not support. But I agree, there are probably some great ideas out there just waitin to be hatched. So come on folks lets hear um. And in 250's defense they have supported republicans in the past. And both of them are very greatful.

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

snake911 · Veteran Member

Thanks for your input Medic one. It was enlightening as always. My responses would be similar to the other posts made it my defense. Hey Nate and Erin, you and I must be like "this" (if you could see me now I would be pointing at my eyes with two fingers and then motioning at your eyes with those two fingers and then waggling them back and forth to symbolize a connection). And for your info medic one I dont get any of my political info from my union other than their stance on the issues. I look up my info using a variety of resources including but not limited to books, magazines, international news programs, the internet, BBC, MSNBC, official statements from political parties and corporations. In short, I am "off my ass". I take part in many activities beyond sitting in front of my computer, annonymously spewing insults at my coworkers. Get out and help someone. You might find that there is more to life than tryong to prove everyone wrong.

And I disagree with the raising of dues at this time. One of the larger points to the IAEP vs 250 vs NEMSA debate was that dues were $8.20 a week. TO change that dues structure now before we are done with the bylaws, before we have an E-board, and before we start actually seeing IAEP as our reps would only serve to turn people off further to the idea of unity. I dont think we should change the terms used to sell IAEP in the vote. Once we have an E-board in place and we are well on the way of moving into the future then maybe that would be a better time to discuss dues increases but making it the first act of a new union looks very bad. Although I agree that another $3 a month back to the local would be very helpful now is not the time to change the basic tennets of our union.

Brad Cramer

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Brad,

Sorry...I've got limited time today so I don't have time to go back and re-read the post, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

The post Bill sent out was not about raising dues, but utilizing a small portion to start a COPE fund. Lee Siegel is also very supportive of this idea as well. I think it would be very insulting for us to raise dues in light of the support we got from our members; turning around and immediately raising dues would be like a slap in the face. I definitely would oppose this motion if it were to be made to our impending E-board.

I think to go and just establish a COPE fund, without the approval of said board, is not a smart idea. I think this is something that the board should decide on once in place. I am quite cool to the idea, although I respect the opinion of others that it is a good idea.

More than anything, it is important for this union to set itself apart from other unions, and their way of thinking, which would include SEIU Local 250. Let's face it, we just fought off a very serious threat from NEMSA. There was a reason why so many people supported NEMSA. People clearly want a change. So the question begs to be asked - Why go back to business as usual when it is clear change is needed. I think almost everyone would agree to that.

Right now, without listening to the opinions of others, which I admit could sway me, I would be against a COPE fund as it was established by SEIU, especially in the infancy of our union when there are so many other things that we need to get straightened out first.

What do you think?

Thank you,

Rod Billings, Shop Steward, AMR CoCo Operations

Paramaniac · Senior Member

On the NEMSA board, Dave Turner writes:

Date Posted: 09/20/2004 12:43 PM

Lee,

Id just like to point out that you say our dues with IAEP will be $8.20 a week. That comes out to $32.80 a month. This whole time they have been touting our dues will only be $28.00 a month. So how did this come about? You see! Lies lies and more lies. I dont understand why people think things will change with IAEP they are still a part of SEIU. You say that a committee is being FORMED and bylaws ARE BEING WRITTEN not wrote yet. So how did they come up with all this? If there isnt a commitee yet formed or bylaws written.

just looking for answers

Thanks

Dave

Okay, let's address this. There are no lies here. Even if the dues were to be $32.80, that is still far less than the NEMSA proposal(s), depending upon which dues structure, there were several from them, you would believe.

There has to be a starting point. What do you want, a vote on the people that would decide who is on this committee; well then, we'd better have a vote on that vote, then a vote on that vote for that vote. C'mon, this is ridiculous. A Constitution and By-Laws are NOT being written until we have a committee assigned to write them. The real problem with you hard-core NEMSA folks is that you have openly stated that you will have nothing to do with your new union, then you point a finger at us, the involved, as we strive to make changes and support our cause. Should it surprise you, Dave, that you are not being asked to get involved? There have been quite a few shop stewards that jumped ship and went to NEMSA after being promised nice, cushy jobs. I expect the IAEP, in light of that, to be cautious and protect itself from the very people that attempted to destroy them.

Here are some bottom lines: hard-core NEMSA supporters probably will not have a say in the development of this union - that is their prerogative; we are going forth with this union and we will elect/select a committee to form the By-Laws; hard-core NEMSA die-hards will continue to complain and whine about how 'who made this decision" or "I don't remember us voting on this" when it is you who have actively and openly decided to derail our efforts. That is the ultimate contradiction and betrayal of your fellow co-workers.

Thank you,

Rod Billings

Rdgoosmicp · Member

While I agee, changing the dues structure before an e-board is elected, is silly. But, I dont see why we cant just go back to where we were at with dues and actually put that money towards many of the ideas NEMSA supporters had and believe in......Go forward with bigger and badder ideas and be the best and brightest EMS union anywhere, not just because of our contract but because of what we can accomplish at the local level in each of our counties. This can only happen if we want it.........I always support less taxes(what i feel union dues are) however, If we can accomplish more with what i was paying and getting nothing.......I will be VERY supportive.

Thanks

Mark Thomas Shasta

STRIFE · Senior Member

Regarding a dues increase,
I'm pretty sure no one here wants to see a dues increase right now, I know that I would be open to the idea of spending a couple more bucks to go back to our local well after the e board has been elected. After our local is up and running, we can make that amendmant to the dues structure if we all decide and vote on it. Same with the COPE situation. I suggest we take care of the million other things we need to do first. I am excited that people are actually having suggestions on here now. I would much rather see us argue over what should be in the bylaws, then having the same circular argument of who's representing us. That fact that we are able to even argue what goes in the bylaws is a beautiful thing, this is what we have asked for, this is very different then life the 250. Soon NEMSA supporters will see that, i have faith.
-nate

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Mark,

I just wanted to take the time to thank you for your support. These are all great points to bring up as we form our union. I've been giving COPE a tremendous amount of thought in the last couple of days. It is my humble, one person's opinion, that we should probably hold off on that indefinitely. Let's use our monies on building the best we can be, and be the baddest (in your words).

Thanks,

Rod Billings, Shop Steward, AMR CoCo Operations

Medic_One · Senior Member

So tell me, when you sheeple find out that the SEIU bylaws state that there WILL be a cope fund what are you going to do? When you are forming these great bylaws and you want to do something that contradicts NAGE or SEIU international what are you going to do? When the 37 out vote the 3 on the NAGE board what are you going to do? We are less than 1% of SEIU, how are you going to overcome that?

You are trying to get more than your $3.00 dollars back. That is great just write in the bylaws that are so autonomous that you want it all back and see what happens. EMS control huh? Did you know that with NEMSA EMS gets 100% back? Every dollar goes to the "local", but I guess your content with 3. Were you aware that every member of the board is an EMS worker? Did you know that members can vote to change the national bylaws? Did you know that EMS does have the say in were the money goes? Did you know the EMS members have total control over what political battles NEMSA supports? Did you know that under NAGE you have none of this? You people amaze me. Just keep the blinders on and hurry to the trough.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Nate,

You probably don't remember way back in the day of vinyl records. Man, once they start skipping and repeating themselves, they are deemed completely useless. Oh sure, you could try the ole "put a penny on top of the needle" routine to see if you can get it on the right track. Never really worked...all you really did was ruin your needle, waste your time, and lose a penny!!<lmfao>

Medic_One · Senior Member

What Rod no answer? What are you going to do Mr. "I am so great" When what you want to do gets trumped by the big guys is Boston and washington? What is your plan? Oh I am sorry, that's right, Bill must have gone to bed last night and not told you what to say.