IAEP had better be paying attention

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

IAEP had better be paying attention

jsahagun · Member

Old Rhino,

I acknowledge your continued unwillingness to help the people you claim to represent get a fresh start and have a voice in their new union. It is however unfortunate. However our commitment is to the members and only the members. I'm sorry that you cannot make your peace with this but there is nothing I can do to change your opinion that has not already been done. All I ask is that you not be a road block and prevent the people of your county from coming forward and joining the effort in establishing their new local. I look forward to someday being able to work with you when we may share our opinions and agree to disagree or work towards an agreeable solution. And as far as letting the people decide for themselves. Not only did that occur with the vote but a second oppurtunity will come when it is time to affirm our decision and sever our ties completely with local 250. This I anticipate will occur when we have had suffecient time to experience all that the IAEP has to offer.

In Unity,

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Mr Sahagun you write "I acknowledge your continued unwillingness to help the people you claim to represent get a fresh start and have a voice in their new union.".... What you fail to realize is I am trying to help them, you just don’t like my point of view. And, you are unwilling to accept it as the point of view of the county I represent and other counties. And, I’m not preventing anyone from taking part in IAEP. They have already made up their own minds how they feel about IAEP. Not everyone went into this thing with blinders on. I would like to wager right now that if there was a re-vote tomorrow IAEP would go down in flames. I’m so sure that if I lost I would walk away from being a steward and leader of any type. If IAEP is so sure of how great they are lets have a re-vote with their name on the ballot not 250. Make it a fair vote no B.S. just facts..Even better lets let each county have a vote to decide what they each want. That way no county is forced to take something they don’t want...Lets see how that would come out...Then in ‘06 each side can look at what the other has got and vote to join the best union. Your way we wise up in ‘06 vote out IAEP and have nothing or 250 which is the same thing...Don’t thumb your nose at me, I’m doing exactly what my county wants me to be doing....They don’t want IAEP

jsahagun · Member

Old Rhino,

You write " I am trying to help them, you just don't like my point of view." This speaks volumes.

In Unity,

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Aaron,

Let's break this down. You wrote:

A lot of what Vernon Thymes is saying mirrors the feelings of a lot of counties.

Who elected him, or you, spokesman for all these counties? Let these counties speak for themselves. If they wanted you to do it, they would have elected you.

By the way how many of you are still on lost time, getting paid to make IAEP work.

I know of no one that is currently working to establish this local who is being reimbursed for it. I have not received a dime. In fact, I have been spendingmy own money traveling to different counties to help out.

.

Rod, you keep making statements like we decided to make the by-laws committee voluntary.....WHO’s WE...I don’t remember picking you to speak on my behalf or anyone of the other 5.

We, as in all of those who have contributed to this local to date. I am not speaking on your behalf; you're a big boy. There have been many people from several counties that are contributing, from Shasta to Monterey. If you do not get involved, you will have to settle on others making decisions for you. When a date has been set for the By-Laws cmte to convene, you will all be notified. I am sure it will be posted on here. Who are the "other 5"?

We are already back to the we had a meeting crap and this is what we decided to do, only nobody really gets to vote on anything....How SEIU of you.

There is not going to be a vote for the By-Laws cmte, completely and totally unlike SEIU. You have not shown an ounce of support for this local, but you will stand here and criticize our attempts to include everyone in all the counties. I wasn't included in your decision to start NEMSA. There was no vote to elect your president; he was self-appointed. Get off your high horse. How NEMSA of you.

I attended the IAEP meeting in my county, gave them my numbers and I have not heard a thing from them since....But you sure seem to know everything, don’t you..

Yes, I do because I am staying in the game. So Aaron, if you're not sure what's going on, what do you do in other facets of your life. You find the answer. Give Marc a call. Have you tried that simple approach yet? It seems easier for you to sit here and crriticize.

Again, who gave any of you the right to speak for me or my county....We where not even given the right to decide if we wanted IAEP.

Yes you were. It was called a vote Aaron. Everyone knew, prior to voting day, what the circumstances were. Right now, we are in an interim, there needs to be proactive people driving this machine. No matter who it would be, you will find fault.

They are setting you up to be the fall guy in their money making scheme.

I don't know the folks, other than Pinkas, very well. Who knows, maybe you are right. Maybe we are being set up. But the voters have spoken Aaron, and despite all of your remarks, it doesn't change a thing. They voted in IAEP. Again, I told you NEMSA folks that if the voters decided on NEMSA, that I would very much still like to be a shop steward under your banner because I believe in what I do. For me personally, nothing has changed. I am doing everything I can to help this new local out. So what's next, faulting me for being consistent?

I have been looking into other IAEP locals in the state....I grew up in LA and have friends and family there....I’ve looked at the locals in LA and they are a mess....

Sounds like all the more reason to get involved. But look at your approach Aaron, it's not to help..It's to find fault. The local needs everyone's help.

If you want IAEP to be successful than let the individual counties decide if they want IAEP first..

As I stated to Forfend, there was a vote. They already did decide. You just don't like the results. You guys weren't yelling foul on voting day, because there were none Aaron, because you were so confident you would win outright. In fact, NEMSA was predicting a landslide. The vote is over Aaron. You have your objections with the NLRB. It is in their hands.

Until counties decide what is best for them there will be no harmony.

Every county voted. Every county's polling location had an SEIU rep, a NEMSA rep, and a NLRB rep. Again, if we did it your way, we'd just keep on voting until you finally wear everyone out and you get your way. The vote is over. And before you, or any of your NEMSA friends continue on ripping on COCo, remind yourself of this fact: Of 2400 (approx) possible votes, only 190 of them came from CoCo. There were many counties that did not support NEMSA. But despite this fact, you will look the other way, and continue blaming CoCo employees. There will be no harmony by your choice Aaron. Well, you'll be working under the same contract as I do. This makes no sense whatsoever. But, AMR sure must be enjoying this.

cctbone · Member

Old Rhino does make one good point. The communication regarding the times, locations and minutes of the meetings has been poor to nonexistent.

Perhaps all pages should be sent out. I also suggest that meeting locations and times be posted here under the Topic "Meeting at______on Oct._____".

And as I did a few weeks ago after a meeting, the meeting discussions be posted under the Topic "IAEP Update from Meeting on Oct. ____". Thank you. Any other ideas for improving communication? The newsletter idea is great.......

P.S. To all those IAEP critics out there, bring it on! Your concerns are legitimate and should be addressed.

The legitimacy of the election is a concern for all but I do however think the whole IAEP/250/NEMSA election issue has been discussed thoroughly and beaten to a pulp. The election result is being addressed by the NLRB and is beyond our control. IAEP is our union representative for now, like it or not. If the NLRB decides to hold another election, so be it. Now......Let's move on.

-- Edited by cctbone at 22:14, 2004-09-30

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Lee,

That was........well.........very presidential-like of you. I always thought a CCT-P would make a great president. AND!! You're not from CoCo! You are well spoken, articulate, and a democrat!<unions love that kinda thing>.

Well, you have one vote at least!

Rod

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Old Rhino,

You write " I am trying to help them, you just don't like my point of view." This speaks volumes.

In Unity,

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

Quote the rest of what I said as well.......What you fail to realize is I am trying to help them, you just don’t like my point of view. And, you are unwilling to accept it as the point of view of the county I represent and other counties.......This is what speaks volumes

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Rod, you can go ahead and cut apart what I’m saying all you want but it wont change the fact that what I say is true.......If you and IAEP want to bury your head in the sand and pretend all is well then go right ahead.....But you had better take off the rose colored glasses before you try and lead us all down the primrose path.....There are whole counties out there that are ****ed off....I’m stepping forward to make it known and IAEP had better be ready to deal with it.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Aaron,

Nobody has the viewpoint that everything is honky-dory. It was an awful past seven months, and it was evident that lots of people are p*****-off. Some type of structure has to be implemented. Discussion and participation concerning this task needs to happen. A solution and plan to address what is angering some people needs to happen. If we keep on tearing each other apart, then that will be the story of us.

Erin

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 08:30, 2004-10-01

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 08:31, 2004-10-01

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Hello People

You are missing the whole point. Like I said before. IAEP is illegitimate. Some sort of structure under an illegitimate entity is also illegitimate and neither one is or will ever be accepted by the members in the 16 counties that were kept in the dark while you people made the decision for all of us. The members are not going to support your back room screwing of over 1800 of us. Why do think no one is turning out to the meetings you are having? The only turn out IAEP is getting is in COCO. So let COCO have IAEP. The rest of us don’t want anything to do with them

Vernon

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 09:10, 2004-10-01

STRIFE · Senior Member

See this is what I don't understand. You think that IAEP is like a group of people that have nothing to do with us, who are sitting around trying to figure out ways to scam us. Well guess what? IAEP is US! We are the ones making all the decisions. Not many decisions have been made, except just some basic ideas about what needs to happen to just barely get the ball rolling. Honestly, eversingle member has an oppurtunity right now to actually become a part. I'm sorry but Torren already had bylaws written, he already had hired staff, secretary's, we were never apart of that, and its a joke to think were going to be able to be. Why do you say IAEP had better pay attention when IAEP is us? I guess we should pay attention to ourselves then. There are a few people here to help "guide" us into building our local. We all have Marc's email address, and his phone # is easily available. the only reason why many of us are being included on the very primitive and simple ground work is because we are calling him on our own accord telling him we want to be included! I'm sorry if it troubles you that people are actually becoming more involved then they way we were with L250, but we need to get used to, and really you should become involved too. Just say the word and I will email you with as much info as possible as to when each and every meeting is. We are the ones that are telling Marc where, when and how many meetings we should have. We are the ones telling him whats a good idea, and whats bad. If NEMSA had won do you really think torren wouldn't be attempting the same? Would you slam him for trying to get NEMSA off the ground until the NEMSA e-board was formed? What exactly would you like to see happen right that is not happening,and then I would ask you why have you not stepped forward more, and actually gone out of your county to go to meetings all over the place to be involved. Earlier you stated "A lot of what Vernon Thymes is saying mirrors the feelings of a lot of counties". I couldn't think of anything farther from the truth. Who are you communicating with? The same people that were die hard nemsa supporters? Well the truth is, in my travels the last 2-3 weeks to meetings in other counties, almost every single member was just excited that something different from what were used to is happening. Both people who voted for NEMSA, and those who voted for L250. I did not meet anyone, except one member who voiced disapointment in what IAEP is doing. And this includes counties like Santa Clara, who everyone claims was a 100% NEMSA. The members in Santa Clara the day we went were just disapointed that we didnt have a better method in getting info out about meetings. They did understand that it is very difficult to use union boards, email systems, and pager systems when you don't have many contacts in that county. Every member in Santa Clara stated they would be sorely disapointed if they were left out of the building process of our local just because a few people were holding grudges. They truly wanted to be a part. Now I know this doesn't speak for everyone there, but I do feel the majority of the membership in Norcal are ready to move forward. And it is mostly up to us to pay attention to each other. Marc Pinkas is all ears right now. He is an awesome guy. No scams from him. We have the oppurtunity to tell HIM what we want done, and he will do it! Lets start becoming involved!

STRIFE · Senior Member

vernon you are making a mistake to think that the MAJORITY of members are not wanting to move forward. That does not mean everyone, but you are very wrong to think that most people are going to refuse to be a part of IAEP. I understand you don't want to, and that is very respectable, but at least understand most other people do not have a problem with it. Most the members I spoke with in Santa Clara who voted for NEMSA stated post vote that they to this day still didn't even know a single thing about NEMSA, but were excited to see that IAEP is real and actually has a plan and is actually executing it. Most of them were surprised to learn that NEMSA was less then a year old! They stated they were led to believe NEMSA was a strong national union that had been around for years with tons of members! They had no idea who torren was, nor had they ever seen him before. We don't need to get into it all over again, but you are truly dilusional to think that most members are going to refuse to be a IAEP local. It is great that you don't want to, and you have every right to voice your opinion, but please don't think that we actually believe you when you say most members will refuse to be a part. You see, many of us are actually getting off our butts and becoming involved. That means going to other counties, meeting new people, and seeing that the MAJORITY of people are ready to move forward. Start opening your eyes, and if you have such great ideas, lets start to hear them. If your ideas become ignored, then lets here the complaining. We are very sorry that some leaders are disapointed that NEMSA did not win, NEMSA did not attain the majority of the votes to establish a win. Do you believe that NEMSA should just be given the win because you guys are complaining? Do you believe that NEMSA truly has the support of the majority of the members? If so then why did the not receive the majority of the vote? If the majority of the members were so unhappy with the IAEP deal why did more people vote for that then NEMSA? Was NEMSA such a bad option that people would rather vote for 250 knowing about the IAEP deal and be so unhappy about it later? I don't think so. Lets stop causing division and anger, and start hearing those awesome ideas you guys have!

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Hey Nate you had better stop lying to people. Santa Clara is in no way supportive of the illegitimate IAEP. Or are you calling Stacy Rutherford a Liar?

So which it is Nate. Is Stacy Lying or are you?

Vernon

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Mr Strife, how many people attended the your meetings? Every county has a few 250/IAEP supporters..Yes some counties more than others...That hardly speaks for the majority....How many Shop Stewards and Chief Shop Stewards back your little plan.....These are the people who know the most about dealing in the union atmosphere. They are the ones who where not blinded by the false statements from IAEP of being 100% ems and the lower dues B.S......I'll write more on the lower dues scam later on a new thread. Dont give me the majority vote B.S. either because that has not been decided yet. The NLRB has not certified a winner.....As it stand right now yes you have more votes, but you do not have a majority

-- Edited by Old Rhino at 12:50, 2004-10-01

Play with My Money · Senior Member

The majority issue is very key. It has to be 50% plus one. I've wondered if the objections would delay a "run-off" vote, or if there is no simple majority, could the objections be withdrawn and a "run-off" vote go forward. And, if so how long would that take to implement? Geez, what a can of worms this all was. The good that did come out was a crystalizing of direction for the labor group, and dialogue between the counties. I would hate us to all separate into fifedoms after all of this.

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

I’m all for setting all the crap aside and having a re-vote....I think the turn out this time would be astronomical and a clear winner would emerge.....Now that people have seen the mess that their apathy has caused they will get off their butts and vote this time....No one would be able to argue about the out come

Play with My Money · Senior Member

The county seat in Monterey is the City of Salinas. They have a legal, registered population of 150,000 people. They have huge voter turn-out when 16,000 cast a vote. I'm worried that a quick re-vote would actually have the opposite affect. More people disengaging, more hatred and division. We actually had a good turn-out. The issues center around the closeness of the vote.

Eventually we will have lots more voting opportunities. At some point, IAEP will have to be voted on. I think we need to understand timelines for all sorts of future possibilities, make plans to facilitate membership voting at large, and in the meantime not ignore the welfare of our house.

911Driver · Veteran Member

As stated on the homepage of this site, AMR has Officially recognized IAEP as the legitimate bargining unit for those NORCAL divisions that particiapted in the vote. NEMSA and its supporters have run out of time.

On another note, notice that the NEMSA website has changed it's potition on the Service Agreement? Torren went from stating that the whole thing was illegal to "may be illegal." Don't you think that if it were illegal that the NLRB would be stepping in right about now?

hmmm...

~Driver

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Oh I’m so glad that AMR has officially recognized IAEP, unfortunately the membership has not Officially recognized IAEP........AMR can recognize the President of Peru for all I care. It doesn’t mean he has the right to speak for us.......Until IAEP is officially accepted by the people it would be illegal for them to deal on our behalf......Yes, 250 is still in control of us right now and they dumped us on IAEP.....But whether or not they had that right or who won the vote or is there going to be a re-vote is all in the hands of the NLRB.....AMR may be jumping the gun, which is another matter for the NLRB

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Something bugging me, about Old Rhino's last sentence in the top post. When 250 offered to let counties that supported NEMSA go there way, NEMSA protested quite loudly when 250 was advocating for a county by county vote to the NLRB. "Scuttle the ship" was the accusation against 250 made by NEMSA. Now, post vote, it is advocated for a county by county vote, or to at least have IAEP release counties that still wish to have NEMSA represent their interests.

911Driver · Veteran Member

If I'm not mistaken, 660 people voted to Officially accept IAEP as their union. Again, NEMSA and it's supporters have run out of time.

I think Old Rhino should change his name to Old Al Gore. HEHEHE, did the vote take place in NORCAL or Florida.....

Medic_One · Senior Member

Hey Amy's boyfriend, you are not an EMS worker or even work for AMR or a member of IAEP or 250. You are the boyfriend of Amy Marin, a part time EMT from North Hollywood who nobody likes so she has to find friends in northern California and injects herself into our business when she should be concentrating on paramedic school.

You both have nothing to do with what is going on here so why do you keep posting?

Medic

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

911 driver needs to learn what it means to have a majority....From what you know about voting you must be from Florida

I have to agree with medic one, none of this concerns you go find yourself a new hobby

-- Edited by Old Rhino at 17:11, 2004-10-01

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

If the test is how many votes IAEP got then lets go with that. I am all for that because IAEP received exactly 0 votes. Did you get that? IAEP got NO votes; None, Zero, Zip, Nada, Zilch.

Local 250 got 660 which was not the majority needed to be certified. So 250 did not win and IAEP received 0 votes. Were does that leave us? It leaves us Waiting for the board to conduct a run off.

In the mean time the service agreement is illegal and I understand that charges have been filed against SEIU for bringing in the illegitimate IAEP.

I don't know if AMR recognizing them in the midst of an NLRB investigation into their viability is going to be a problem for AMR or not, but that is for the board to decide.

Vernon

hattiecarroll · Veteran Member

Why are we still arguing about the legitmacy of IAEP? It is a pointless fight. No one is going to change the mind of an extermist. No matter how rationally you state your case.

If the anti-IAEP crowd wanted to be PRODUCTIVE, they should stop kicking and flailing about uselessly. I am all for voices of dissent within the organisation, all those who question the legitimacy of the IAEP- it is incumbent upon you to put down your sticks and stones and work on building a new local that you can live with, regardless of the letters in the name.

Who ****ing cares whether its one organisation or the other at this point. Now is your chance to be heard, be active within a union which has fought to be your representation. maybe your side didn't win, maybe you don't like this new organisation, or you have doubts- all the more reason to act as a part of a system of "checks and balances" by participating.

Anything less is foolhardy, a disgrace on yourselves as workers. standing outside and pointing fingers and calling names accomplishes nothing.

If that is what you will continue to do, than you are truly no threat to anyone, progress will leave you behind, and with it your chance to have spoken up for yourselves.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

MO, once again your inability to gather accurate facts is blatently apparent.

That's Amy Martin.. with a "t", and I'm a FULL time employee in North Hollywood, PART time field training officer,a full time paramedic student.. and whether or not you like me, you old coot, really doesn't blow the sunshine out of my day.....

And since my boyfriend and I live together, and the fact that he is preparing to attend paramedic school himself and currently works in an ER as an EMT.. the goings on in the world of EMS do indeed concern him. I work in the North Hollywood division, he is my significant other and is "attatched" to me, therefore.. what affects me.. affects him as well.....He has experience in working as an employee of AMR, that's were we met I'll add, and he also has experience in working under IAEP as a member.... soooooooo...... that would mean that he speaks from experience, like myself, when discussing the topic of Unions and working in the field.......something you ought to keep in mind since in the future he could be a "potential member".. but not likely with the way things are going for NEMSA....

Have a nice day... and do a little more homework before you go posting inaccuracies.... again.

-- Edited by Clear_my_side at 17:39, 2004-10-01

-- Edited by Clear_my_side at 22:50, 2004-10-12

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

To Hattiecarol and all:

That is the whole point to what SEIU is doing to us and what they have done to us for 15 years. If people think this is new they haven't been around. They would rather ask forgiveness than permission. That way they get what they want and say "were sorry we should have done it different, but what is done is done so live with it" and then like stupid lemmings we go along with it and they get what they want. It is right out of the SEIU screw your members handbook. I have been a member for many many years and the pattern is the same over and over again. They screw us and then blame it on us for not showing up to meetings that they never tell us about. Come on people this service agreement is just a repeat of what they have done to us forever. Are we going to buy it again? Please stand up for what is right. Over 1800 of us from 16 counties did not have any idea what was being discussed on our behalf and what was being agreed to in our names. Now we are supposed to accept that because we have no choice?

I am telling you I would support the agreement if it was done above board, but it was not. There is a core principle of integrity missing here. No organization, no matter how good they are, will ever stand when it was formed in the shadows and is predicated on secrecy and deceit.

This has nothing to do with NEMSA. We all need to stand for what is clean, truthful and established in the light day. There are good men and women out there that hold true to these principles and cannot in good conscience get behind IAEP for these reasons and that is why there is and always will be resistance.

Vernon

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 19:53, 2004-10-01

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 19:55, 2004-10-01

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Vernon,

That was a passionate post and I was moved by it. Yes, IAEP does need to have a vote from the entire group before it has credibility in the eyes of the members. Timing is everything. We do not want to subject our contract to any loss during these tight fiscal times. If we go from being represented by SEIU Local 250 to IAEP, we will subject our contract to a potential reopener. With the service agreement, we are directly involved with IAEP while they attend to the SEIU Local 250 contract.

Now Vernon, on your earlier posts you said that you voted for 250. This passionate post that you just placed on this thread shows me somebody that despises Local 250. Now, did you vote 250 or NEMSA? Your credibility is subject to scrutiny. You cannot even keep your lies consistent.

Vernon, you said that there is and always will be resistance. What do you exactly mean by that statement?

STRIFE · Senior Member

hey medic one, I thought your comments regarding AMY's boyfriend were funny because how do you expalin Dary's wife Tracy commenting and insulting us daily on the NEMSA message board? She does not work for AMR, nor is she a dues paying member. I was just wondering your thoughts on that. Secondly, I'm not sure why "vermon thymes" is trying to say I'm lying. Ask anyone that was at the meeting in santa clara, every single person there, which was only a little over a dozen stated regardless of how they voted they want to be included on whats happening now. Stacy was not there, so i cannot comment for him, nor did I. So how come I am lying? I gave you an accurate example of what happened in Santa Clara. I also attended a meeting in Alco. There was overwhelming support for moving forward despite what people voted vote. There was one person in Alco that was hesitant, and I understand that. The only comments I make about Stacy, and this is witness by myself and Brad who is sitting right here, is that he did state whoever wins the election he wishes to continue to be an awesome steward and help build whatever it is we chose. So vernon what am I lying about again? How interesting that as well as Medic one, you too are scared to post your name after your insulting comments. Awesome!
"Tina Eat the Ham!"