I thought that this would be a great way to study Vernon.
Vernon brings up the service agreement without calling it a service agreement
Vernon uses the word illegitimate a lot. Like a bastard that hates himself.
Vernon contradicts himself. My personal favorite is when Vernon writes a beautiful call to war. He speaks of resistance now and always against the IAEP. Vernon speaks with disgust for SEIU Local 250 in that post, years of hatred. Vernon claims that he voted for SEIU Local 250 yet he talks about how 250 has always screwed us.
Please share your observations and opinions on Vernon. He is a wonderful specimen.
There are a few things I find interesting about him:
1) He stated he was trying to be active in helping improve the local, yet all he has done has been bring everyone down by insulting Rod, every single CoCo employee (referring to them as "goons" repeatedly", and IAEP in general. He has never stated what exactly it is he has done to help the local.
2) He constantly berates Rod, yet he doesnt offer concrete reasons why. He just states Rod feels the world revolves around him, yet the only thing he uses as proof is pointing out how Rod is being proactive in getting IAEP off the ground. (Whether he will admit it or not, Vernon is portraying HIMSELF as the center of the universe).
3) Whether Vernon and Medic One are the same person or not (it doesnt really matter, it would just prove him to be a desperate loser), go back and look at past postings by each of them. Look at their writing styles, their abreviations, what they do and dont capitalize...the writing styles are almost identical. Im sure now that Ive said this, they (or he) will change the style's dramatically, but it was still kind of an amusing observation I noticed.
4) It was well documented that if you voted for 250, it meant you knew you would be taking on IAEP as your local. If he is so convinced that IAEP is pure evil, why did he vote for 250? (I know this has already been pointed out, but it is rather amusing)
How about that. A five million dollar lawsuit. What is a five million dollar lawsuit and how much does it cost to file a five million dollar lawsuit? Does a five million dollar lawsuit show that they want the court to penalize the people being sued for five million dollars?
Wholehearted support for the decert of 250 and a change of mind with the potential of a lawsuit eh?
Secret meetings.
It sounds scandalous.
As far as Vernon goes(I have to stay on task), I have found Vernon to have many of the same concerns that I have had. I explained to Vernon on a post the same thing that I was told but I never saw any response on the thread or to my private message box.
the difference between you and Vern is that You actually bring up your opinions and concerns in an adult manner. Vern has done nothing but be deragatory towards many people (The CoCo goons comment for example), and bash 250 with vague comments (even though he voted 250). He rarely brings up any points, he just accuses us of "following blindly", and then makes sure to insult Rod because Rod has chosed to be proactive getting this new local off the ground. If Vernon would civilly present his opinions, that is one thing, but all he does is repeat his same propaganda every time. Its to the point now where very few of us bother to read his posts anymore. I find it amusing how we are "following blindly" in his opinion, yet the only difference between us and him is that we are actually now showing support for what we voted for. Apparently voting 250 isnt "following blindly", but supporting what you vote for is!
The Fab Five explained that IAEP is in a service agreement with Local 250. The contract will still be between AMR and Local 250. IAEP will provide necessary services to protect that contract.
True, but the caveat here is that the service agreement was not approved by the membership and is under investigation by the labor board because it may be illegal
Let's see, a secret meeting that was secretly held in two locations so that we would be in absolute secret happened. I was there asking a lot of questions. Those questions were answered with comments like "just get the petitions for the decert signed and will explain more as we go along".
I resigned because I believed that it was a conflict of interest and unethical to collect a paycheck from somebody when you are ready to take business away from them.
I got the petitions signed because I believed that it was my obligation to my shop that they be informed and given the choice to vote. I still stand by that to this day, even face to face with Sal and Dan. Every time I cross paths with them, they bring up the fact that I had members sign the decert and I always have told them my point of view. Bring it to a vote.
That pretty much sums up my fear of being sued. I was never threatened with a lawsuit. I never had to redeem myself.
I was always skeptical and asking questions about the structure and organizational chart and business plan of NEMSA. These are normal questions that require solid answers to embark into business. Non profit or for profit.
My switch to 250 was not a switch. I was always in hardcore support of my labor group. That is why I would make the six hour round trip for labor management meetings.
I went on lost time. Let me explain this. When NEMSA had their double secret meeting, I was on lost time for political activity. I was working with our local CLC and politicians. I did not represent paramedics during that time. I quit being on lost time due to the conflict of interest. After the NLRB hearings and 250 put aside their charges, I was contacted by 250 was asked if I would be willing to go back on lost time. I agreed and worked with 250 for a few weeks. Now I am back on the streets.
I went to the SEIU Local 250 leadership conference. I along with other elected stewards sat with representatives from NAGE and IAEP. Lighthearted discussion over breakfast about the vote between NEMSA and 250.
Some time later, 28 elected stewards got together (more than I have ever seen at one place at one time, even negotiations) had several meetings over the course of a few days and discussed if IAEP would be acceptable to our members as an alternative to SEIU 250. Those discussions were not secret. Elected reps were present and reported to the members.
I never hide from the truth. I only ask that you share the truth.
Name me the 28 elected stewards, 250 or IAEP can't because they didn't exist.
NEMSA's meetings were not secret, I was there and every county was there except shasta and they were contacted by phone. Even Jonathan Sahagnan from COCO was brought in. NEMSA would not have launched without the buy off of the ELECTED leaders from the counties.
You can stop lying Erin. NEMSA was started legitimately with buy off from all the elected representatives not two hand picked IAEP hacks. Did you see the picture that was taken after the meeting on the NEMSA web site? You know the one with you standing next to all the stewards from all the counties?
The lawsuit Erin? please, as soon as that came out you abandoned all principle and ran right to 250 and Dan Martin. At that moment you ceased to care about your co-workers and it was all self preservation from then until this very moment.
The truth Erin, the truth. I will be waiting for the names Erin. You threw it down now back it up.
I'll get you names once it is ok with those people, but you will probably call them hacks.
You continue to hammer at the lawsuit issue. It is too bad that people collecting a paycheck from the union, working to represent paramedics, broke their ties after they had a full scale organizing project underwayto subvert the union that had represented them and provided them jobs.
I did not make a position for 250 until April 30th. The lawsuit was filed prior to that. Another fact you failed to find out.
Shasta, Marin, San Francisco, San Benito, these are a few of the counties that were not present at the secret NEMSA meeting.
I remember my photo on the NEMSA site. I was labeled as an executive board member but there had never been a vote and I was unaware I was in an election. There started some real concerns about the validity of NEMSA.
As for posting names, I would never do that without an individuals permission. Especially since I have the impression that you want to create your own John and Jane Doe list.
That is exactly the response I expected. You threw it down and can't back it up. How do you expect to be believed on anything else?
Oh and you were concerned that people didn't vote for you for the NEMSA board, but it was ok that people didn't vote for the service agreement. Lets see its not ok on one side, but its ok for 250 why would that be Erin? Could it be that one side was clean and the other had a 5 million dollar law suit waiting in the wings for someone who didn't go along?
Sorry Erin the dots on your crooked path line up pretty straight.
Actually, it does prove a good point. Vernon complains non-stop about not being a part of the meeting to discuss the service agreement between IAEP and 250. The vote to have IAEP to be our exclusive bargaining agent is yet to come. Service agreement, not election is what has happened so far.
NEMSA tried to call me a leader(board member) that would have been placed there by an election had the process been appropriate. This was without my knowledge and there were no bylaws to have a legal election. It was a hack.
Your speculation on my fear of being sued is unfounded and the only dirt that you can use. At least imaginary dirt is clean dirt.
Another observation on your "comments" about me, that I was the only one who had second thoughts following the initial nemsa meeting. You're forgetting Jonathan and Scott Engleman. Scott changed his position to 250, then back to nemsa three weeks before the San Mateo vote after a visit from Torren and Tim Talbot. Scott told me the reason for his choices was wanting to be in the best position to be hired into the fire service when fire takes over transport there. I guess since everyone thinks SEIU gives our jobs to fire, he thought that it would be better to be SEIU. Then he was told that nemsa would facilitate their move. This is all very confusing. Fire and EMS. One minute partnerships are cried for, then fire is the enemy, then they are a desired organization to join. Fire is such an obsession.
But, you're right, most kept their position for nemsa, and some have been very loud about it. All 20 or so of them.
I think Medic asked for the names of the 28 stewards that you said approved the service agreement on our behalf; you have still not produced those names. I too would like to know, because it would be a direct contradiction from what the IAEP leaders and the 250 leaders have said.
Can someone really tell me how many members were at the 250 /IAEP meeting. Adura told members of AMR No. Hollywood that their were 60 people at that meeting. The member of my division would really like to know the truth. I even ask Adura to please provide me with the names and she refused. So is Adrua and 250 lying agian to the members.
There were 2 elected shop stewards (Jonathan Sahagan from COCO and Nate Contos from Santa Cruz) and two unelected members (Shanoa something from Santa Cruz and Todd Wilhoyte from Sacramento) at the meeting. So the answer is 4 That was it. That is why the members here are not happy at all. SEIU purposely excluded our elected leaders and members from northern California. When Ian Lee the chief from San Mateo asked IAEP and 250 why they did that, Mark Pinkas from IAEP said it was because they didn't want anyone there that would disagree with what they were doing.
The COCO people argue that there was a conference call before the meeting, but again none of the stewards or members from the other 16 counties were included.
I don't know about you and your members, but to the members up here that is a big problem. The members have filed charges against 250 at the Labor board.
Other than the hand picked groups from only 3 counties, the members from 16 other counties are not cooperating with IAEP because they were not brought in legitimately and the members have stated that they will not support an illegitimate organization because the members were purposely kept in the dark and not invited to the secret backroom meetings.
I will post this for the last time, as it is obvious to all there is no actual attempt here for reasonable dialogue; you have your issue, and peck at it like a chicken. You disagree with the vote being the mechanism to approve or disapprove of the service agreement making IAEP our representation. My position is that the vote was the most all inclusive, best mechanism we have ever had for consensus. Everyone knew what was on the table, hate it or not. More members participated in bringing this to the members than has ever been done before when decisions were made for everyone by who showed up at a meeting.
Two phone conferences, and a meeting. I've explained this numerous times. Stewards and members participating. People contacted were those who signed the flyer for being on a committee for a better EMS division. The ones who could make it were on the phone, but everyone knew about it. I wasn't taking names, and they were rattled off quick. I won't name them because its not my place, plus I've had members from my county threatened by nemsa supporters in other counties and I won't be the one to subject someone to that. I don't mind being your target. There were four stewards and three members from Monterey, there was representation from San Benito, Santa Cruz, AlCo, CoCo, Shasta, Burlingame, Modesto, San Francisco, and Sacramento. That's all I remember. I do think it is unfortunate that there wasn't someone from each county. It was the current environment; in the other counties no one was willing to have contact with 250 other than to tell them how much they hated them.
-- Edited by Play with My Money at 15:52, 2004-10-02
Vernon has not made direct insulting remarks. Vernon does not leave me feeling creepy like Medic One or Tim Bonifay.
Vernon always sticks to the subject at hand, unless medic one chases a thread off into the weeds. How many union members does it take to make a decision?..........Somebody come up with a punchline.
Vernon is obsessed with his right to vote. So am I. Timing is everything. You would know that if you were a woman.
Vernon has signs of obsessive compulsive disorder when he receives an answer and asks the same question regardless of how accurate or complete the answer is.
Oh contrare, Vernon has made personal insults part of his dialogue many times. "CoCo goons" and "CoCo Hacks" just to name a couple. Apparently Im a goon and hack just because of my county of employment. He also accuses Rod of not answering questions, yet Vernon has failed to answer many of my questions.
