Here is how IAEP does business; They invite people to come to their bylaw meetings to discuss candidates (give suggestion on who would be a good choice, etc...) for rep positions. Yet they have a meet the candidates meetings on the 21st and 22nd of this month. Before they have even held meetings in 4 counties. Looks to me like they have already made up their minds as to who the candidates are and the membership isn’t going to get to have a say in who they think should have the job. GEE... kinda sounds like the way they decided we all needed to be part of IAEP....The rumor mill is telling me that they have 4 candidates for 4 positions. Does not sound like there is a lot of choice there.......Oh and who choose these 4 candidates in the first place. Being they where chosen without any participation from the counties. I’m sure glad you guys have picked a union that’s going to let us all participate in how we want things done.....You guys are blind......You guys are gonna give IAEP 90% of your dues money to IAEP. You get to keep 10% to run your local. Only its not even your local because they are going to make all the decisions for you. You’re a puppet in the IAEP money making show and SEIU is the puppet master. When the show starts to stink they blame the puppet.
I don't think you've been tracking, however that's understandable, Rhino's are a little near-sighted. The info meetings were to garner rep candidates, and people were given contact numbers and e-mail addresses to express interest through. The by-law meetings are for...by-laws. What has happened now is they have made some selections from that pool of responses, at least that's how I understand it. Now, you are given an opportunity to meet these candidates, ask questions and give your input. I doubt someone will be hired if there is overwhelming objection. I imagine you and your friends will overwhelmingly object to anyone as you see this as "illigitimate". Since IAEP is paying there salary from the dues kitty, not the money that comes back to the local, they are the employer and have some say so in who they think are good candidates.
I think many agree what is happening now, is far better then what we had with the old L250 model. It may not be what some NEMSA supporters were hopeful in NEMSA, but right now we have autonomy, independance, support and security. It is too bad a few members are not able to recognize how much more we are going to have right now then we did with L250 alone. Old Rhino, do you think that we can count on you to fairly represent your coworkers, and try to make this thing work? I say in a year from now if things suck, those that are unhappy should voice that. I along with many other members would feel much better about the complaints if they came actually after year. Lets see if we can make this work. Old Rhino, you say that you along with other NEMSA people have nothing to gain financially from NEMSA, then why are you trying to make IAEP fail? Are you truly saying IAEP can only fail? Why does IAEP work in Hawaii, southern cal, east coast? Why does it work for 10,000 members? How can you expect us to believe IAEP will certainly fail, but you guarantee that NEMSA would prevail to the point of NEMSA organizing 10,000 a year? Well guess what? According to NEMSA's president, NEMSA is still going strong, so there shouldn't be any reason that they won't be organizing those 10,000 a year right? Well NEMSA has been around for about 8 months, and they have less then a 100 organized. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt and give them another year. If they organize just 5,000 a year from now, I will seriously reconsider NEMSA. I would like to see NEMSA do what they promised in all aspects before we think about them again. If they are so great, lets see other UNORGANIZED areas organize with them. IAEP deserves a chance since in all reality, we are IAEP! We make up our local! Old Rhno, what is the real reason you will not participate?
Whoa hang on now....Rhino’s don’t see well but they have very good hearing.... Pinkas, Farley and Bernard where at the info meetings in Sac. Nobody said a thing about nominating reps or anything about input about the reps.....I recorded the whole meeting and took notes...Absolutely nothing about reps....Snake911 isn’t that Brad is saying in his posts that you are suppose to go to the by-laws meetings for info and input on reps.....Is this another 250 meeting shell game; we’re having a meeting, oh you missed the meeting, we advertized the meeting but nobody ever heard of the meeting type thing.....Next you’ll be telling me all the counties voted overwhelmingly to selected these four candidates. 250 played that game all the time. The more things change the more they stay the same. Welcome to the new SEIU, just like the old SEIU.
Maybe if you were actually up here representing your coworkers instead of trying to get your "dot-com" company going down in glendale, you would be kept in the loop better. Unless you cannot read, you would see that a schedule of bylaw meetings has been posted on here, and mailed to everymember, I hope to see you in person at many of those meetings Aaron. Myself and Brad would love to have you come down to the meeting in Santa Cruz. I believe you have good input, and we would love to work with you on new ideas that will make our local the best ever. Also, these meetings are a good time to step away from the computer, and see that there is much more to all of us then insults and anger. We truly are coworkers, and I believe in the end, what we want is the same. Mylsef and Brad both truly agreed to each other, that despite the poor leadership displayed by many NEMSA staff and supporters, that we were going to be a part of NEMSA if it had won. We were hoping you and your coworkers would do the same. If we do not even try to participate, at least for a year, then we truly are purposefuly breaking up the bargaining unit, that is very sad. It is a joke to not think AMR is not laughing at all of this. It is just stupid. I don't blame either side anymore. We have all participated in the insults, mostly because we are frustrated. Right now however, many of us are frustrated by the stubborness of a few die hard NEMSA supporters intent on breaking up this unit. I hope to see you in Santa Cruz Aaron, I believe we could find many more similarities in what we want then you thought we could. -nate
Nate, I have the schedule for the by-laws meetings That is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the reps. Re-read the thread. Also, there are way more than a few stubborn NEMSA defenders. I’m just the one dumb enough to continue posting on the IAEP forum. If you leave the Santa Cruz, Monterey, and CoCo bubble long enough you would know that.
Also in regards to your prior post on this thread; Your right I am in this for the money, the dues money. I want 100% of our dues money to go towards us, our union. Not have 90% of it go to make NAGE and SEIU fat and happy. So, they can make decisions for us and force us to take them. I’m not happy with trying to make my union work on 10% of my hard earned dues dollars
Then why didn't NEMSA get more then 604 votes? Also, you would be surprised how many people in Santa Clara who voted, who DIDN'T vote for NEMSA, you would be surprised....yes there were many NEMSA supporters, just like there were many IAEP/L250 supporters. So does that mean for all the supporters, that if their side didn't win, that they should not participate?
I don’t people at this point have to make that decision yet.....You often quote how everyone agreed to participate in whatever union won.....Well nobody has won. There is no certified winner. We are still in limbo. Sure 250 gave us to IAEP and 250 has not been decertified because the vote decision has not been made yet. But, that changes nothing the vote is still not certified. Plus, Many of us resent IAEP being put upon us with out our input. Until 250 wins the vote, by that I mean certified, IAEP has no right to be here. 250 should have gone about this whole screwed up mess differently. They should have said if we win the vote we will bring in IAEP to represent you. Then when the vote was certified IAEP would come in and start representing us. Not this your IAEP now, 250 has dumped you like it or not. You don’t get a choice. But what would have been the best way to handle this would have been for 250 to say ok we are not doing a good job what do you people think of IAEP and have a vote to decide if all of us wanted IAEP or not. Then go on and have the vote between NEMSA and IAEP. But no that’s not how it happened it was here you IAEP like or not 2 weeks before the vote. Then a massive lie filled propaganda campaign to sell IAEP/250 service agreement crap. Telling people a vote for 250 is a vote for IAEP. When IAEP is not even on the ballot. If you don’t think that that confused people and made the vote confusing to some your very mistaken. We will never really know how many people voted for 250 expecting to get 250, not IAEP.
Now how many are going to turn to support IAEP who knows. The situation changes some once the vote is certified. Some may decide to just hold out till the 1 year mark and make another run at it. Some may never accept IAEP, Simply because of the way 250 forced it on them. This thing is not going to settle for a long, long time and that’s not NEMSA fault for starting it. Its 250's fault for the way they did and still are handling it.
The fact is 250 abandoned us and IAEP can't and won't represent us. 250's entire campaign was full of lies, spin and dirty games. The IAEP twist was total desperation not to mention illegal and now their up to the same old crap.But what do you expect, there cut from the same cloth....... the one suffocating EMS
Ok, understanding your frustration. But Aaron what do you propose we do then? Not have a union right now for possibly multiple years? So are you saying after a few years when the NLRB declares L250 the winner, then what are you going to do? Also, regading Monster comment about IAEP not being able to represent us, can we have some examples? Why are they representing 10,000 other ems professionals? Time to move forward, lets give it a try. Life goes on!
In my "bubble", the info meeting was as I stated with mailings supporting it. I wasn't at Sac. One thing I agree with you on was this was "a mess". A lot should have been done differently on both sides. However, this mess occurred in a very short time frame. Crisis management.
quote: Originally posted by: Old Rhino "Nate, I have the schedule for the by-laws meetings That is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the reps. Re-read the thread. Also, there are way more than a few stubborn NEMSA defenders. I’m just the one dumb enough to continue posting on the IAEP forum. If you leave the Santa Cruz, Monterey, and CoCo bubble long enough you would know that. Also in regards to your prior post on this thread; Your right I am in this for the money, the dues money. I want 100% of our dues money to go towards us, our union. Not have 90% of it go to make NAGE and SEIU fat and happy. So, they can make decisions for us and force us to take them. I’m not happy with trying to make my union work on 10% of my hard earned dues dollars"
How many times does this have to be explained to you! If we were NEMSA we would not be getting 100% of our dues to run our local. Money would have to be spent on salaries, office space, office supplies (computers, phones, fax machines, copiers, paper, pens, etc), postage costs, legal fees, etc... The same thing that we are paying IAEP to provide for us. They give us back the surplus, $3 per member per month, to do what we choose as a local. Not to run out local, but as a "slush fund" for whatever our members want.
And the fact is that right now IAEP does represent us. You can refuse to accept that if you want but dont complain that nobody cares about your input if you refuse to participate. you can call it illegal all you want but that doesnt make it true.
__________________
"It's time to awake, get up and fight, fight for mankind, live for a cause" The Pilfers
Snake911 you had better check again. Their is no way you can call that 3.00 back a slush fund. Things like arbitrations and lost time, Etc... come out of it. Those are very big ticket items......A common complaint among other IAEP locals is they are always broke and NAGE will not give them more money. Think about this statement they make; at every meeting when ever they talk about arbitrations they always hook on but we will never refuse a grievance because a local is broke. its part of their arbitration speach because they know it happens so much.
And if our members want an arbitration it will come out of that fund. And if we only take arbitrations that are justified we will get that money back when we win at arbitration.
Have you and NEMSA figured out yet where the free office supplies and buildings are? Is anyone offering to give you free phone service and postage? You keep dodging this issues. You keep spouting off about all the money we would have with NEMSA while you ignore the costs associated with running a union. When its IAEP's money there are too many costs, when its NEMSA's money everything is free and we all get rich. How much money do the Oak Valley and San Mateo folks have to pay for their arbitrations after paying Torrens salary, and all of the other associated costs of running a bussiness? Are they getting full time field reps? How much are their salarys? There is not as much money leftover as you would like people to believe and anyone who is capable of understanding facts can see that.
I can hear it now. Too young to understand business... Go play your Playstation...Not from Rhino because he hasn't insulted me yet which I appreciate, but the others will no doubt have some opinions to share.
__________________
"It's time to awake, get up and fight, fight for mankind, live for a cause" The Pilfers
A common complaint among other IAEP locals is they are always broke ........Aaron Pelican
Why do you continue to hide the financial condition of NEMSA, Aaron? If you are going to question the finances of this union, you had better be ready to defend your own. Let's see your books as you tear the cover off of ours.
Did you actually expect anyone here to believe your backpedalling on the "Jerry's Kids" comment. What you have failed to see is that you would have gained more respect from people here if you had just came out and admitted that you made an ugly comment and you were sorry for it, especially when it involves children.
You have learned well from Torren, Aaron, and that is a shame. After Bonifay's vicious and disgusting comments, Torren made the same mistake you have by not coming out and firmly admonishing and rebuking him. This man has no credibility whatsoever and it speaks volumes that he is still with you. All Torren could muster is "Tim does not necessarily speak for NEMSA".
There is a common theme emerging from your camp, blame everybody else but never assume any responsibility yourself. It consumes your own webpage.
quote: Originally posted by: Paramaniac "A common complaint among other IAEP locals is they are always broke ........Aaron Pelican Why do you continue to hide the financial condition of NEMSA, Aaron? If you are going to question the finances of this union, you had better be ready to defend your own. Let's see your books as you tear the cover off of ours. Did you actually expect anyone here to believe your backpedalling on the "Jerry's Kids" comment. What you have failed to see is that you would have gained more respect from people here if you had just came out and admitted that you made an ugly comment and you were sorry for it, especially when it involves children. You have learned well from Torren, Aaron, and that is a shame. After Bonifay's vicious and disgusting comments, Torren made the same mistake you have by not coming out and firmly admonishing and rebuking him. This man has no credibility whatsoever and it speaks volumes that he is still with you. All Torren could muster is "Tim does not necessarily speak for NEMSA". There is a common theme emerging from your camp, blame everybody else but never assume any responsibility yourself. It consumes your own webpage. Rod-- Edited by Paramaniac at 23:37, 2004-10-14"
So whats your excuse RROOODDD. Is the theme in your camp." Leaderless, hiding in the shadows freaks emerge with a new found voice and brain" Rod, the problem with you is you seem to have become some big leader for IAEP ( wannabe pres) when you sucked as a steward. You only were involved when it benefited you, or didn't take too much of your personal time. Now here you are the voice IAEP. Nice work
From one Local stand point in LA, I can honestly say we are NOT broke. We keep good track of our money and use it wisely. As for arbitrations go, the Local only has to pay for a quarter of it. Let me break it down for you:
1. AMR and the union split the cost of the arbitration.
2. NAGE and your Local split that half of the arbitration cost.
Your Local only ends up paying for a quarter of it. Also, I know for a fact, that if you do not have money for a justified arbitration, NAGE will be more than happy to help the Local out. We have had that problem before and NAGE was more than happy to front the money. They will not let your Local suffer.
"...at every meeting when ever they talk about arbitrations they always hook on but we will never refuse a grievance because a local is broke. its part of their arbitration speach because they know it happens so much." -Aaron
Aaron, honestly, the IAEP "hooks" that on because it is always a follow up question when employees are asking about arbitration costs. So, it is easier to just include it in the arbitration statement, to cover all the bases, instead of just waiting for the question.
One more thing, I am not sure if it was you, but someone posted that arbitrations were around $10,000. I have not, to this date, seen an arbitration that costed that much money. I am sorry if I am wrong, or there are some arbitrations of that amount for Northern California AMR employees, so let me know. All I know is that I have seen several arbitrations and that is a ridiculous amount.
I just hope the North Hollywood campaign doesn't turn out to be like the North Hollywood election. There is alot of animosity between co-workers and that is sad.
