ALCO meeting

Forfend · Senior Member

ALCO meeting

Medic_One · Senior Member

Autonomy? Good luck. It’s SEIU in a different dress. Any local bylaws are worthless because the NAGE bylaws will always supersede. As for accountability; Ask the local 1 members in Boston about IAEP. Ask the LA members about IAEP; ask the Tracy members about IAEP; ask the Bakersfield members about IAEP. They have the worst contracts in the country. They are loathed across the nation, and you think that they are somehow going to be different here? Get ready for a big disappointment!

Forfend · Senior Member

Is NAGE the overseer of IAEP? I thought that they were both affiliates of SEIU. Is IAEP subject to NAGE? That was never said in the meeting. As for these places with horrible contracts, I have not contacted very many people from those areas. I have met a few. It seems to be the same thing as everywhere else that I have been. Smart people with great ideas that try to get involved but cannot pull the popularity contest off. The democratic process requires a lot of popularity for success and I have never met a popular person that was disenchanted with their organization. That is the downside to having autonomy. Local meetings are swayed by popular people rather than intelligent thinkers and planners. Hopefully our region will be able to understand and remedy this.

Rdgoosmicp · Member

Medic one,

This is the point........We are now 250/IAEP so stop with the other line of pointless bickering. Yes, we are under SEIU and then NAGE Then IAEP Then our local.......Thats why a lot of people wanted NEMSA(me included), But that is overwith........no more bitching should be done......Now its time to make what we have better....Put forth effort to see if we can make it work as 250/IAEP......If not deal with that bridge when we cross it.

Thanks,

Mark Thomas Shasta

Medic_One · Senior Member

Yes IAEP is a division of NAGE; The 8th division in fact. IAEP itself is not even a union! It is not registered with the department of labor as is required of every union. NAGE is registered. NAGE is the union; IAEP is only a division of NAGE. Are you getting a glimpse of the smoke and mirrors yet? NEMSA has been trying to get this across for weeks. IAEP is as much an EMS only union as 250. The detractor here is that the terminology that they use makes it look autonomous on the surface, but it is identical to 250 underneath!

STRIFE · Senior Member

Forfend,
You have asked some really good questions. I would ask you to ignore medic ones negative thoughts. IAEP is in now, and they are extending an invitation to ALL members to engage in building our local. Medic ones days of pure negative input are over, because guess what? they are not involving themselves, so they have no place to complain. We have an oppurtunity to make this local
what we want it to be. It is too early to call it a failure. I will ask medic one to start showing up at meetings, and contributing, and if our local fails after that, then they will have something to complain about. Anyways, concerning your questions, we get to keep our benefits with the taft hartley trust. And as far as Nage's bylaws, the only ones we need to abide by is that our local needs to have a president, treasurer/secretary, and an e-board. Those are set in place so that our local will succeed. I invite medic one to participate before they think they know everything about IAEP. We asked NEMSA for a plan, we were told to shut up and follow along, I'm over that. Anyways, I'm glad to see for the most part, that the cat fights are ending. The support for this is growing so strong with every meeting we have. Even in Santa Clara today members were so excited. Many members stated even though some voted for NEMSA, that many were disapointed in the lack of information provided about NEMSA, and they were glad to see that IAEP actually had a strong structure, timeline for bylaws, timeline for the 4 reps, timeline for offices, and elections. Keep the questions comming, and IAEP should be posting on here soon meeting times and places.
Like i said before, we are excited to see that the majority of people are ready to move on, and for those who are not, I very much understand. The vote was very close, but at the same time since we all have the same goal, we should be able to make it work.

Medic_One · Senior Member

Hey Strife

I am glad that you think everything is ok. You were one of the chosen that thinks its ok to sell out 1,897 people who had no place at your meeting or your conference call. Tell me what your position is on the violation of article 5:d of the bylaws that you have never read? and what you are going to do about that violation?

And answer me this; how could IAEP have won if they were not on the ballot and I thought the board certified who won and who didn't, so tell me who gave you the authority to declare a winner?

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Riley,

Are you citing that " Members shall have the right to receive accurate and timely information relating to the affairs of the Union" was violated?

Paramaniac · Senior Member

We are letting the members decide who wins. They've decided MedicOne. Why are you ever so intent to go against their wishes.

I ask you to refrain from the insults you've used against me in the past. Everyone is getting really tired of that. I hope you realize someday that your points are taken more seriously when they are made professionally.

As I said to John Greene, you can 1)play a part and help your own future 2) attempt to thwart our efforts to secure YOUR future 3) get out of the way.

You said you were who and from what county?

Thank you,

Rod Billings, Shop Steward, AMR CoCo Operations

Medic_One · Senior Member

Rod,

We are playing a part to help our future. Ours will help our future yours will destroy it. We must agree to disagree. Don't expect us to embrace those that are a detriment to our careers and families. In fact expect a full scale attack to defend ourselves against any one or any entity who would threaten our livelihood and our providing for our families.

STRIFE · Senior Member

Riley, you wrote
"In fact expect a full scale attack to defend ourselves against any one or any entity who would threaten our livelihood and our providing for our families." Does this mean that Bill bower and some of the 250 staff members should start a full scale attack to defend themselves agains Tim Bonifay? Also, your quote there is not impressive, the majority of the membership is not going to follow this crap. You are becoming your own worst enemy steve.

Medic_One · Senior Member

Nate,

If you would actually read you would know that I am not Riley. Good luck in getting support for your "new puppy" Nate. I find it par for the course that you are asking Steve what you should do now. Funny how you stab him in the back and then ask for his help. What a friend Nate. Way to go big guy. A page right out of the Dan Martin play book.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Medic One,

Why do you always say Nate stabbed Steve Brooks in the back? I'm left to infer that you feel members should follow their stewards without questioning, and that would be weird.

Medic_One · Senior Member

It goes well beyond that Erin. Talk to Steve, he will be glad to inform you about Mr. Contos and his derision.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Will do. Thanks for no put down.

911Driver · Veteran Member

I must step in here for a sec... Having worked both in L.A. and Bakersfield, I can tell you how popular IAEP is. First, most if not all EMS people here in L.A. love IAEP. IAEP is fairly new to this area so we don't have a lot of experience with them, but so far they are doing a great job. Now not EVERYONE is going to be happy with their representation. I'm sure there are some "nay" sayers around, but I can tell you that for every person that you claim that is not happy with IAEP I can find 10 that are. Now bakersfield is a different story. A couple of years ago, HALL Ambulance voted in IAEP. They are still working out the bugs. Also, the contract that they voted in does suck. But that is not the union's fault. The current president (interim president Devon Lawrence) is a sell-out and has no clue on how to run a local. I have experience working with him and he sold out his local on this last contract and LIED to the members and told them that the contract was not going to get better. The union reps were planning on fighting for better perks but since Devon is good friends with the Ops Manager (they play golf regularly together) he sold out the members and blamed the contract on the union reps. Additionaly HALL's is still divided on whether they want a union or not and the company still makes life difficult for those that support the union. As for local 1, there is only like 4 members that are unhappy with their reps from my understanding of the reps that I talked to. And again, IAEP is a union for EMS BY EMS. If the members are unhappy with their reps, vote them out. Same with Bakersfield. Their E-Board is a joke. And yet they still continue to let the same clowns represent them. I ran for president but no one would take me seriously because I was an EMT and yet I know a lot of powerful people and could of made a big difference. The members made their choice and continue to let a retard run the show. Autonomy remember!!! If things suck, it is up to the local to fix the problem. The higher ups can't just come down and wave a magic wand and make things better. The members have to vote these people out. Unlike NEMSA where Torren makes all of the decisions, all of the members make the decisions.

Also, LA and Bakersfield are only on their first contract and are currently working on their second. The contracts may not be the best, but things are a lot better now then they were when we did not have a union at all!!!

One last thing, IAEP is affiliated with NAGE and SEIU. IAEP is not CONTROLLED by the other two. As a requirement to be apart of NAGE, IAEP has to follow some rules. Those rules only say that IAEP has to set up an E-board and such in a certain amount of time and have elections on a regular basis etc. NAGE and SEIU DO NOT CONTROL IAEP at all. If I am wrong, please show the facts and let me know the name of the reps you talked to because I probably know them.

~Driver

STRIFE · Senior Member

Hey 911 driver,
We should make an attempt to have periodic IAEP meetings that consist of northern CA, and southern CA IAEP stewards and VP's, that way we can keep in good communication with you guys down there. We have an oppurtunity now to actually have strength in numbers, lets make sure we don't get lazy and ignore it.
-nate

911Driver · Veteran Member

Great idea... For example, both norcal and socal should have a big "summit" twice a year. Having the entire state have a "state of the union" meeting would be very beneficial to all of us. Talk to Leah about it. Mabe you could put it the bylaws...

~Driver

STRIFE · Senior Member

Sounds good, but you guys are buyin drinks first!!!!!
-nate

Medic_One · Senior Member

No IAEP is not affiliated with NAGE. IAEP is a division of NAGE. IAEP is NAGE. You have no clue do you? IAEP has no independent registration with the DOL; it files no LM-2 forms. IAEP is not a union at all. NAGE is the union; IAEP is the EMS division of NAGE. IAEP is the 8th division of NAGE. EMS has 3 EMS seats on NAGE's 40 member executive board. Tell me wise guy how does that make it an EMS only union?

As to your statements about LA loving IAEP. You are just plain wrong. Ask the people in the field and not your girlfriend Amy and you will find a deep hatred for your IAEP pals.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

blah blah blah.. blah blah blah blah.. blah blah blah blah blah blllllaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh... That's all I ever hear from Medic_One.... obviously he's the most qualified person to give input on what the people in Los Angeles are feeling, thinking, asking,... oh.. but he does have Carlos to give him his qualified opinion seeing's as he's worked under IAEP....NOT

Cry me a river Medic_One.. you don't have a clue about what happens down here, so don't try to be the spokes person. If anyone other than myself has any grounds to speak about the goings on down here, it's Carlos or one who's worked or still works down here.. and that doesn't include you... of course who can be sure since you never say who you are or where you work.... And I don't pretend to know what everyone in this division is thinking. I don't assume to speak for the people up there. I speak for myself, and express my own opinions and beliefs... and make sure to keep that fact known.The least you could do to save face is keep talking about what you think you know about your own area, and keep your trap shut otherwise.

You think 911Driver is talking about the people in only my division....obviously you didn't take the time to read that post very carefully. Or maybe you didn't understand a post that was written intelligently and without your typical blatherings of put downs. He keeps in better touch with people from our old division then I do and keeps his lines of contact open, just as I do where and when I can. I don't pretend to dillusion myself into thinking that everyone in SoCal likes their union, be it IAEP or whatever, but I feel confident it saying that the majority are just fine with their union.. or don't care.... that's always a possibility too....

And FYI "wise guy"... no one ever said that NAGE was an EMS only union. IAEP IS the union of EMS, and is a DIVISION of NAGE.. which means IAEP keeps it's own house.. and all the contacts and backing of NAGE to call upon when it's needed.

-- Edited by Clear_my_side at 19:44, 2004-09-19

911Driver · Veteran Member

Well, I stand corrected. IAEP is a division of NAGE, but NAGE is only affiliated with SEIU. I got it backwards.

As for the "hatred" for IAEP in LA. You are the one that has no clue.... I challenge you to come down here and we will both go to all of the L.A. divisions and you can PERSONALLY point out the vast number of IAEP haters.

~Driver

Here is the info from the NAGE site...

By 1982, Mr. Sweeney agreed that everybody would benefit if NAGE affiliated with SEIU, AFL-CIO. An agreement was reached after several meetings.
NAGE had always been a player at the National level and it now was the most powerful and diversified union in Massachusetts. Its membership included federal, state, county and municipal governments.
Another division, the International Association of EMTs & Paramedics (IAEP) was created in the early 1990's to represent employees in the emergency medical service field. It marked the first time NAGE sought to represent private sector employees. The IAEP is now one of the fast growing divisions with locals from Massachusetts to Hawaii.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

And Nate.... consider the first round bought!!!!

micp879 · Veteran Member

Medic One,

Im sure if you looked around, you will find people that are not happy with IAEP. At the same time, you can also find people that are happy with IAEP. The NEMSA side obviously chooses to exploit all those quotes and comments that are "anti IAEP" much like any IAEP supporter would choose to exploit the comments that are "pro." As much as your side promotes and praises Torren, there are several people that are very anti Torren and will fight to the end that he is bad news. My point is there are always two sides to every story. It hasn't been hard to find people that are pro IAEP, and it hasnt been hard to find people that are anti. My point is, the truth is somewhere in the middle. And I think alot of it falls back on the regional reps and shop stewards. If they are strong, then that group of employees with be strong. If they are useless, then that group will be in trouble and is probably right in looking for another group to represent them. I chose to go the IAEP route. Others chose to vote NEMSA. Many of us can agree to disagree. I just ask any personal insults and hostility to be refrained from unless someone is verbally starting it and directing it towards you. In the past, you have chosen to be very hostile towards me even though I have never instigated anything against you. Most rescently you accused me of "poking my head up" only after the election, and you then questioned by crediblity. You failed to take into account that I had posted multiple messages leading up to the vote, asking questions about NEMSA so I could make an educated decision. My previous posts were just under a different screen name and since then I am unable to access that name because my password isnt being recognized. So I ask you refrain from the childish comments and accusations, when I have never sent any your way. We are both adults, I dont see why you are always so hostile, especially towards those that arent that way towards you. Thank you. Micp879

Equus911 · Member

Medic-One:

The only hatred I see in here is yours. The vote is over. Grow up and start cooperating in the efforts to work with IAEP, or go away and join Tim Bonifay under his rock.

Equus

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

I just wanted to clear up a little from my last post. I re-read it, and it sounds like I don't think that Carlos's opinions of IAEP are valid. I do not feel that way about Carlos. I do feel that the whole of Medic_One's information of what happens down here comes from Carlos, and he has made it known that he favors NEMSA, which is fine in my book,... but from something I said long ago, it is pretty much fact that when you get info from a side that is in favor of a certain opinion, the "facts" are probably going to be a little..... I want to say bent, but that's not the right word... tainted might be better. And that is to be to expected and accepted as part of the game.

I just wanted to clear that up. I don't want anyone to think that their opinion of things is not valid or "crap" in my book. It's like they say "opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one".. heh heh... and HEY!!! Look at that! I've got one too!

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

MEDIC-ONE:

When you do come to town look me up. I will personaly drive you and any other person to talk to the IEAP members in L.A. You see medic-one I do know alot of IAEP memebrs who are not happy with them, and thoose who are happy.

Now 911 driver how many contracts does it take for IAEP to get a good one? If IAEP is so good why is it that the first or second contracts are not that good. If a union has been around for more then 5 years or more, every contract should be better then the one before. Please don't make excuses for them. How come Ventura has a better contract then L.A. aren't they in the same union.

Now in North Hollywood/ Glendale I can say that we have a better contract then L.A's. Yes I know that they are nagoitating a new one. From what I heard from jason the 187 pres. It's still not as good as ventura's. Why not? Is it the members fault or the union reps?.

Carlos

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Carlos,

Just a couple thoughts. Where you live, the type of service the company provides, the competition, the amount of profit the company makes, and yes, if it's a first contract, these factors all play a part. Our first contract was nothing like what we have now, and the first one was negotiated under 250. It also matters how far membership is willing to fight for something, and they have to weigh the risks in their own particular clime. I wanted to strike for higher wages last negotiations. The majority of members did not. I'm not bitter towards them, or accusing them of being dumb. Randy Jonasee was our rep in last negotiations. For all his faults, he's not dumb.

Things can always be improved on, there are always lessons learned. Standing back and finger-pointing from afar is not helpful.

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Amy:

For your information I have no idea who medic-one is. The only person that I speak to in No. Cal is Torren. So if medic-one gets his information about So. Cal then maybe he also has contacts in So. Cal.

Everyone is intitle to say or type their own opinion. That's what freedom of speach is all about. One's opinion is that. His or her opinion.

jsahagun · Member

HEY MEDIC ONE,

Carlos has graciously extended an invitation for you to come down to SoCal so that he may introduce you to people he has handpicked from the membership at large to demonstrate the hatred, disgust, overwhelming distrust, animosity, dislike, and fervent vociferation of mistreatment and lack of service that the IAEP has allegedly bestowed upon those he once again will handpick to introduce you to. I encourage you to take him up on his offer and after you have met both of those people come back and report to us your findings.

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

P.S. Yes I had to use a thesaurus to type this post. So sorry to you english majors out there if I misused a word or two.