ALCO meeting

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

RE: ALCO meeting

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Ahh hell Jon...you spelled thesaurus right(he..did..spell..it..right.....right??)<s>

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

I didn't figure that you did know who Medic_One was... although I did kind of hoped you did.. but I also figure that any and all info that goes around up there about what's the deal down here is probably info from you that is filtered to "everyone" else.....

Does that make sense?

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

indeed yes.. he did spell it right...I just check the cover of my own thesaurus

Medic_One · Senior Member

So again, a very valid point is ignored because it casts IAEP in a bad light. Is any body going to address the fact that IAEP is not even a union let alone An EMS only union? Let me repeat: IAEP is not registered with the department of labor. IAEP does not file LM-2 forms; IAEP is NAGE's EMS division and is subject to NAGE's constitution and bylaws and any local bylaws cannot have anything contradictory to NAGE's or SEIU's international Bylaws. EMS has 3 seats on NAGE's exec board in Boston. Can any one riddle me how this makes IAEP an "EMS only" union? I just want people to tell the truth. IAEP is not an EMS only union it is division of another SEIU local just like the EMS division of local 250.

If we are going to make informed decisions we need to quit dancing around this fact.

STRIFE · Senior Member

Medic one, I don't think your getting it. The local control we have over our IAEP local is much more then we ever had with 250. Yes we are not completely independant, but many of us were not looking for that! Do you want to know why? BECAUSE WE DIDN"T TRUST PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO RUN IT!!! YOU SCARED US BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND INABILITY TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS ISSUES WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT! Get over it, were moving on, i'm sorry IAEP isn't what you want, but the fact is its more then we had before. We will have more control, I believe we can attain a higher sense of proffessionalism, but it is up to us! How do you explain what happened in LA county when the contract was signed 20 minutes after AMR found out IAEP won up here! That says something. Many of us didn't want to be in a union with no affiliations. Many of us do not have a problem with NAGE, you do, and I respect that. You are sounding like a broken record with everypost. We know all the details, we made a decision, its done, please join when you are ready to, if not, get out of the way. None of us were planning on sabotaging NEMSA if it had won. I suggest you get your county involved as much as possible so that later on, they don't blame YOU for leaving them out of the building process. peace out dude, see you at the next stockton meeting!

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Amy:

I agree with you that some contracts depends on what area of service and calls one runs determins what kind of contract one gets. But that doesn't give a union the right not to try to nagoiate a better contract then the prior one or another division. You always look at what others got and ask for the same. I was told that by Chuck Dovey at our last nagoiation in 2001. AMR will give it to you if another division has it. Does that make scence?.

As far as the invite to L.A I never said I will hand pick the members. I will drive Medic-one to any location that IAEP handles and talk to it's members. Everyone talks about getting along and working with one another. Why is it that when a member say's something about IAEP everyone attacks them. (Amy that's was not directed at you).

CopyC3 · Member

NOTHING CHANGES! WE ARE STILL WITH SEIU LOCAL 250! JUST BEING SERVICED BY IAEP!

cctbone · Member

John,

I'll just point out one change and you can figure out if it's significant or not.......

While our dues money will be distributed by 250 to SEIU and IEAP, 250 will not keep a dime for itself.

Medic_One · Senior Member

That’s nice, but that is not what the service agreement says; unless they did another one without anybody knowing. Lee you know that if it isn't in writing it aint happening. How long are you going to let them lie to you before you say enough? It didn't take John long.

Forfend · Senior Member

Is the service agreement posted? What are these escape clauses that Medic One is talking about. This is a bit stressful. What I really find stressful is the full scale attack. What is this full scale attack mean. What will become of us (the field) if a full scale attack (war) is waged upon each other.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Forfend,

It is posted on this very site. Look up and you will see the "Home" on the title bar. Click on that..on the right side you will see the "servicing agreement" which you can also click on. This will show you the entire agreement between SEIU and IAEP.

Thanks,

Rod Billings

Forfend · Senior Member

The escape clauses that Medic One wrote about do not have much in the way of stealth maneuvering. There seems to be an accountability clause for IAEP to follow. I like how 250 always puffs and boasts that they are the largest healthcare union. Usually the big dogs don't exhibit their largeness. Well, we are now small, but bigger than NEMSA. The Hummer was an exhibit of largeness without merit. 250s largeness is at least real.

The agreement is total subcontracting language. It does not appear that 250 will get a profit, but I do wonder about the international per capita. Will that be paid through NAGE and 250 or just 250. I did not see a clear answer when I read over the agreement.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

EVERY LABOR GROUP PAYS PER CAPITAS. SINCE WE ARE ALWAYS COMPARING OURSELVES TO FIRE, I THINK WITH A LITTLE RESEARCH INTO WHAT THEY PAY IN MONTHLY DUES AND WHERE IT ALL GOES, WE COULD SEE HOW WELL OFF WE ARE.

THEY PAY MONIES TO IAFF, CPF, CLC'S. THEN ALL THERE "STAFF" IS VOLUNTEER IN THEIR LOCAL ( PRESIDENT, SECRETARY, TREASURER, E-BOARD, PAC COMMITEES..) THEY NEED TO SAVE FOR ARBRITATION, NEGOTIATIONS, POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS, MEDIATORS, AUDITORS...ALL FROM WITHIN THERE OWN LOCAL. NOT TO MENTION ATTORNEY FEES, WHICH CLIMB REGULARLY. ASK AROUND, MOST LOCALS ARE PAYING AT LEAST $80.00 A MONTH, AND SOMETIMES A LOT MORE WHEN THERE ARE BIG BILLS TO PAY.

FOR $8.20 PER WEEK FOR A FULL-TIMER, WE GET 4 REPS (STAFF), ATTORNEYS, NEGOTIATORS, ACCESS TO RESOURCES FROM 2 LARGE LABOR ORGANIZATIONS.. IF OUT OF OUR DUES SOME OF THAT GOES OUT FOR PER CAPITAS, BIG DEAL. WE ALSO GET $3.00 BACK PER MEMBER, AFTER THOSE ITEMS LISTED ARE ALREADY COVERED, FOR OUR LOCALS WORKING FUND. NEMSA BELITTLED THIS, I DON'T KNOW WHY. IT ADDS UP. WE'RE NOT EVEN PAYING FOR OFFICES, MOST LOCALS IN FIRE HAVE TO FUND OFFICE SPACE THEMSELVES.

I COULD NEVER SEE HOW NEMSA WOULD HAVE MUCH MONEY LEFT OVER AFTER PAYING SO MANY SALARIES AND BENE'S AT NEAR $100,000 A POP, OVERHEAD, ATTORNEY BILLS (DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN ARBRITATION CAN COST? LET ALONE AUDITING A COMPANIES BOOKS FOR NEGOTIATIONS. GEEZ, JUST THE COST OF NEGOTIATIONS. AND WE WERE TO REALIZE 100% OF OUR MONEY GOING TO US? WE WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE LOTS OF PLAY MONEY FOR OUR LOCAL WORK?

Forfend · Senior Member

So isn't it safe to say that our local having three dollars per member is going to be hard to keep up with a hostile employer? The attorneys that are available, how available and effective are they? Do we get that three dolloars to go towards....what? Why do we need three dollars if everything is taken care of for us?

I do agree with you that NEMSA spending looked bizarre at best. Hummer, BBQ, fundraising for charities and a Durango! The second truck was too much to bear. The food was bad. The appeal was weak and the lack of business sense was astounding. Who on earth cares about charity work when you need charity yourself to make ends meet.

I don't mean to rain on your IAEP parade. IAEP seems like the best option presented to us. I am just concerned about legitimacy, accountability and success. Secession is something that should never raise its thieving head again.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

THE $3.00 A MONTH IS NOT FOR DEFENSE. THE $3.00 A MONTH WILL BE ASSIGNED AS WE AS A DEMOCRATIC GROUP DECIDE BY VOTE. BE INVOLVED IN THE COSTITUTION AND BYLAWS.

WHAT I LISTED ABOVE IS WHAT YOUR DUES COVER. YOU CAN INVESTIGATE THROUGH IAEP BY CONTACTING MARK PINKAS IF YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THEIR ATTORNEY'S SUCCESSES.

ATTORNEY'S ARE AVAILABLE TO MEMBERS FOR LABOR CONCERNS BY DIALING A PHONE NUMBER.

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 23:50, 2004-09-21

Forfend · Senior Member

So what you are telling me is that the three dollars is there to throw parties, entertain community leaders, have a good old NEMSA style BBQ, anything that we want with that money. We are not accountable under law to spend that money for the protection of wages, working conditions, rights etc.?

If that is the case, I want a big party. A state wide party with live music and decorations and food and booze. We deserve a big party after going through all of this. Especially those of you that have led the way.

If we have to be responsible with the money, Bylaw committee work.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

Correct me if I'm wrong.. this is my understanding from when I worked under IAEP....the $3 is used for whatever your local wants... funding local politicians, scholarships, barbques, whatever the local votes for.. that's what it's used for..... and IAEP, NAGE, AMR or anyone else, they have no say so in how you ( your local) spends it. It's not a perk, it's your money, and you control it.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

your dues, minus the $3, pays for your representation, lawyers, etc through IAEP. The $3 is yours, you already paid for everything that a union stands for... grievences, arbitration, reps, lawyers, etc, etc. by paying your dues. IAEP gives back $3 each for you to do with what your local feels like......

is this answering your questions.. I hope I'm not making more of a mess of confusion for you <not saying this in a derogitory manner or condisending either.. just making sure....>

snake911 · Veteran Member

Im with Forfend. We need to have a big "getting started" party to welcome all of us back together under our new union banner. I know where we can find some good bands and I know where to buy booze (every street corner in america). Lets have some fun and remember why we like working with each other again.

Brad

Forfend · Senior Member

YES A PARTY!!!!!!!

I want to have a huge raging party that invites everybody in EMS in the State.

Let's go and party!