SEIU by any other name Smells just as sweet

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

SEIU by any other name Smells just as sweet

RNmedic · Veteran Member

Vernon,

It has been stated over and over that "our" union must be one of inclusion not exclusion. EVERYONE is invited and encouraged to take part in the process of forming our union. Indeed by pure definition, a union is only as strong as its weakest member. In any group of people, there are natural leaders as well as people who are content in doing nothing. Then there are the people like myself who just want to make sure we don't get screwed in the process, so we become active.

Why don't you become an active member and help us out? Why is Rod helping the drive to form the union bothering you so? Who would you like to see take that role? You are an articulate person, so how about stepping up to the plate and be productive rather than destructive?

Peace,

Roland Guy, RN, NREMT-P

STRIFE · Senior Member

Vernon, do you not think that Torren would making all these decisions for us if NEMSA had won? Do you really think there wouldn't be people making immedaite decisions. What is your problem with Rod? He is asking people to be involved. I am sorry if you are offended by the timelime we set for bylaws but guess what? if you don't like it then start showing up at the meetings and voice your opinion that you would like to see the timeline extended or shortened, whichever it is you want. If the majority of people showing up at these meetings agrees, then its a done deal. Once again, this is a time that you can become invovled, I suggest you attend as many meetings, and in as many different counties as possible, thanks.
-nate

Play with My Money · Senior Member

As far as by-laws are concerned, he did draft them himself. They were ratified before the vote, and I don't know who got to see them. It was a key issue in Monterey that Torren was aware of. People wanted to see them before they would consider casting a vote for nemsa.

As far as the current proposal; the commitment that has been made to members is that the current plan for writing the by-laws will be member driven. Whoever wants to volunteer can be a part of writing them before they go out to the body at large for ratification. I would like to see an open discussion concerning by-laws here, but few have participated.

So the "we" is who jumps in. An initiation of something to be thrown on the table starts with an "I", and there will be consensus for issues that affect the members at large, by the members at large. This will need to be done through mechanisms that can ascertain "yaes" or "nays". Get involved in forming the processes so you can be assured that all things will be considered in drafting fair ways to include member input.

-- Edited by Play with My Money at 16:32, 2004-09-29

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

I would have loved to be involved at the meeting that brought IAEP here in the first place, but everyone in my county was purposely excluded.

I am seriously suspect of this "volunteer" bylaw committee.

These people should be voted in, but the problem for the IAEP is that all the trusted leaders in the majority of the counties are NEMSA supporters and they would get the votes, thus eliminating the IAEP supporters, who are not trusted by the members in their respective counties. So it is clear why they want a volunteer committee and why they definitely do not want a vote, but I think that a vote for this committee is just as important as a vote for a bargaining committee. If proper representation is the name of the game then a vote must be affected.

Vernon

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Do I need to state it again?

I am not talking about NEMSA or Torren here. Stop trying to deflect the issue. I am talking about IAEP and their self proclaimed unelected leaders. NEMSA was never our bargaining agent so I don't care nor am entitled to complain on who formed their bylaws and frankly neither is anyone else, so get off it. On the other hand my dues are now going to IAEP and I and you have every right to speak up about the by-laws and anything else this organization does.

Vernon

hattiecarroll · Veteran Member

um...As far as IAEP goes, it seems like anyone with the moxie to get involved is more than welcome to take part. So if you're worried about someone wielding too much power that seems like an excellent motivation to become involved in the process.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Vernon,

I'm not opposed to voting a by-law committee. Somebody has to volunteer to be voted on. And even if we vote on the committee, it's not like everyone will just let them do whatever they want. The by-laws will still have to be voted on. Essentially, it boils down to how long you want it to take to get by-laws. I think a fair solution along the way would have the progress open for viewing on this website up to the vote for ratification.

RNmedic · Veteran Member

The bylaws, once they are written, will need to be ratified by the membership irregardles of who drafts them or how they are drafted. By having the bylaws drafted by volunteer committee, the IAEP is hoping for a broader turnout at the meetings. It is my understanding that there will be meetings in each and every county to draft the bylaws. I do like the idea of posting the 'works in progress' on this website.

Roland Guy, RN, NREMT-P

Shasta Medic · Member

Vernon

The members in Shasta county held an information meeting last Sunday with the IAEP Rep and 10 members. That is 25% of the work force. Two of those members are avid Nemsa supporters in an Iaep county. One of those two was encouraged to sit on the by-laws committee because he is well spoken, and intelligent, and has great passion for Ems. I can't speak for other counties but we need his respected voice. I hope you will step forward and work with us in Shasta and the rest of the counties to build this new local.

micp879 · Veteran Member

Vernon,

Why is it that just because Rod took the initiative to be proactive in getting our new local off the ground, why is he a bad guy? So since he has been active trying to get people involved, and since he has taken his own time and effort to make our IAEP local strong, he is a bad guy who is merely trying to "campaign" in your opinion? As long as I have known Rod, as long as I have been a CoCo medic, he has never had alterior motives, and he has never tried to "force something down any CoCo employee's throat."

So if Rod is such a bad guy with alterior motives as far as being so proactive, how do you propose he shouldve acted alternatively??????? Just sit on his hands all day, and have every member of our 1200+ employee local just wait for someone from IAEP to call them and get things rolling? Rod understands now that IAEP is our new local, and the employees need to be involved to help make this a success. For those people "on the fence" during this election, we need to convince them that IAEP was the right decision, and that we are going in the right direction. If you truly think that this is an attempt of his to "campaign", then that is extremely ignorant and narrow minded on your part. Everything you have said has been destructive, you have done nothing except try to bring people down and bring down IAEP (much like Medic One, very eerily). You complaing about Rod and Bill, yet here you are trying to tear people down. If you truly were truly trying to support your coworkers, and honestly had their best intentions in mind, you would spend less time with rediculous propaganda and more time trying to make this local the best in the country. You have plenty of accusations against Rod, yet you have ZERO ideas for how to make our new local strong!!

As a Contra Costa Medic who knows Rod, I can vouch for his character and his motives. Unless you are someone who works with him, and has attended our union meetings in the past, then you know nothing about Rods current ideas, and you need to keep your mouth shut. Of all of our union stewards in Contra Costa, I dont know of any one else in our county that has the best intentions in mind for his coworkers moreso than Rod and he has always been that way as a shop steward.

I rarely post on these boards, however to sit here an watch such narrow minded and derogatory view points from one child, I couldnt keep quiet any longer. Your "spin" and ignorant view point is quickly shooting down your credibility Vernon.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

I read that post three times (okay, I lied, 12 times), waltzed back and forth in my house, even got my wife, Melinda, out of bed from a dead sleep to read it. That has got to be one of the best compliments I have ever received in my entire life. A simple, heartfelt, thank you seems very inadequate. All I can do in return is promise to keep going, with not only your guidance, but everyone else's as well. It made Melinda's night as well; she actually welled up.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Well that was a nice stroke fest of Rod and COCO, and I'm glad Rod had his wife read it and has a nice warm and fuzzy feeling, but like I said the earth revolves around the sun not Rod and not COCO. The hard working EMS pros in other counties are frankly sick of COCO and your strong arm tactics. It was your wonderful chief that sat on 250's executive board and watched them and supported them screwing us. If he had done his job and represented everyone and not just COCO then maybe we would not have had a decert. He was our VP but did he ever come to Sac or Santa Clara or Tulare or anywhere except COCO? No he didn't, but he sure spent allot of time in DC, and Vegas and Pittsburg with the SEIU international.

So you can get off this COCO is this benevolent inclusive county with trusted leaders. The rest of us are sick of COCO! Rod is so far up Pinkas's south end, that he is either vying for a job or running against George W. Bush, I don't know which. So you can stroke him all you want, but the counties that have a clue know exactly what he is up to. If he was in this for the members why is this the first time he has poked his head out of COCO county in all his years as a shop steward? He was not at one negotiating session for the core; he has never been to a core labor management meeting, he has never attended a leadership conference. He like Bill have hid in COCO were they are surrounded by groupies that tell them they are great.

Well a little news flash, there are 2200 more of us that don't think they are great and don't trust them in the least, no matter what how much COCO employees stroke them.

Vernon

Paramaniac · Senior Member

TIM BONIFAY!!

We all have missed you so very much. How have you been, buddy? For a second, I thought you were that other moron Medic_One.

<stuttering, looking around to see what he's holding behind his back> Is.. that.. machete.. for me now?

Ohh, it's just a pork sausage!! Whew!! Got any vegemite and a Playboy to go with that? I'm feelin'....kinda...you know...randy.<w> This is a much better way to go, you know, versus you hacking my head off or one of my family members pressing their, what was it Tim, thumb was it, against my throat?

Newsflash! It's not 2200, it's 2381. Get your facts right.

Of course Bill spent a lot of time in Pittsburg, it's a city in CoCo. OH! Were you referring to Pittsburgh, PA? Buy a map.

I don't know about Bill, but as a union rep, you didn't go to Santa Clara, Sac, or Tulare. You didn't go anywhere.

CoCo strong arm tactics...Is that what caused your demise? Better spend less time here and more time looking for a job. CoCo is just one county. ONE COUNTY! But, have fun with your scapegoat.

People are sick of CoCo? No Tim, people are sick of you. The people of CoCo have done nothing to you.

<lol>How can I possibly stick my head out of CoCo, when it's so far up Pinkas' south end?

I see you are still part of NEMSA. Congratulations, Tim, in less than 9 months you went from VP to Official Hummer Washer.

Rod

RNmedic · Veteran Member

Vernon,

Haven't you read any of the above posts? Many are from people not in CoCo county, and all of them invite you to become active and take a roll in forming this local. Yet all you do is sit there and bash Rod and the rest of us who work in CoCo. Once again, if you don't like how the local is forming, come to the bylaws meetings and get involved. If you don't get involved, you have no right to complain on how thing are going. I have yet to see one productive idea come from any of your posts.

I think I'm done reading this thread, as it is getting old. I hope to see some productive ideas from you on other threads. But I have to agree with MICP879 in that your rhetoric is quickly causing you to lose credibility.

RNmedic · Veteran Member

Is it true Vernon??? Are you really Tim Bonifay??? Why don't you step out from behind your screen name and tell us who you really are.

Roland

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Now I'm accused of being Tim Bonifay. The more you are called on the carpet the more you are trying to deflect the issues. Nice leadership Rod.

Let me repeat myself again. I supported 250 in the election, but unlike the people in COCO, I do not follow blindly and I speak up when something smells regardless of if it is popular or not. If Bill would have done the same we would not be in this situation we are in right now.

Vernon

RNmedic · Veteran Member

So, just who are you? We all know Vernon is just an alias. Come on Vern, share.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Roland,

I'm walking away from this.

We are just going to have to realize, that no matter who takes the lead and no matter how good the intent, this is what they will face.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

That’s right Rod, ignore the members in classic SEIU fashion.

"Yeah Roland lets go off and make this local and ignore all those who disagree with us and pretend they aren’t there, it worked for 250 for 15 years we can do it to."

You guys amaze me.

Vernon

RNmedic · Veteran Member

Vernon, Vernon, Vernon,

You still haven't answered my questions from my initial post on this thread. Here they are again.

Why don't you become an active member and help us out? Why is Rod helping the drive to form the union bothering you so? Who would you like to see take that role? You are an articulate person, so how about stepping up to the plate and be productive rather than destructive?

Until you answer these questions without all the rhetoric, I give you no credibility.

Roland Guy, RN, NREMT-P

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

First of all Roland,

I was talking to the self proclaimed leader of our new "local". He wants to take the lead then he needs to respond.

Second, I am involved. Next question.

So answer me this Roland and Rod. You are such inclusionists then why were no elected leaders from 16 counties invited to the first meeting or to participate in the conference call?

This whole thing has started off way wrong. No one except your hand picked lackeys are going to eagerly participate in an organization that was brought here illegitimately!

Paramaniac · Senior Member

This is my last post to you.

I have never said I am THE leader of our new local. I am one of MANY people enthusiastically involved, including people who used to support you. I have no more say than any other person showing up to the meetings. For the record, I am going to volunteer for the By-Laws cmte, not because of any political aspirations, but because I do want a say in the foundations of our local. Just more criticisms from you, but will we see you there? Nope, you'll just be sitting here in your pi$sed off world, fantasizing about your next homicide.

We are including anyone from our local to be part of this By-Laws cmte. If you are skeptical, then simply show up. It is that easy.

But, you don't care. All you had in your sights was a nice cushy NEMSA job. It was never about the members for you - it was just about YOU.

Good Bye

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

First Rod,

You need to get off the delusions of Bonifay. I am a member and have every right to post here and receive answers and respond to what I and my co-workers feel is an end run by COCO county hacks that have been the cause of the problems in the first place.

I can't believe you actually expect counties that can't stand you elitists, to all the sudden rush to embrace you. 250 Picked COCO to launch the illegitimate IAEP, they picked COCO members for the conference call. Why? Because they would have been run out of town on a rail in the other counties.

IAEP has not been and will not be accepted in any of the counties that were purposely excluded from the beginning. The "well they’re here now, so deal with it" plan isn't going to cut it. IAEP is not legitimate and until they are, why should any one participate in an organization that was establish illegitimately under false pretenses?

I don't care it they come bearing gifts of gold and platinum toilet seats. They are not a legitimately established organization.

Vernon

Medic_One · Senior Member

Well well, look at what the IAEP groupies are up to.

I am gone for a while and it is nice to see that I can come back and find the same old diatribe of hate and malcontent being spewed at any unsuspecting person who dares to question the kingmen of COCO.

Well here I am girls. I'm sure that with my return you are now finding new reason to exist again, although I am a little jealous that Vernon got to have all the fun being your target.

Let the game continue

Medic

Forfend · Senior Member

I have been saying the same thing. When I first came on this site, I was saying that this service agreement is suspect of something not right. It seems like subcontracting. So, I have not liked this situation at all.

I argued and had the "fab five" jump me repeatedly as I stayed on topic with the fact that IAEP will have no credibility until the entire union membership votes by secret ballot if they want IAEP. We don't even know if IAEP can be here because the NLRB has not certified the vote. I have not been able to abide this service agreement because it seems like some kind of back door deal that affects everybody.

The "fab five" did make a good point. Jeopardizing the contract, having new representation; ie NEMSA, could cost us valuable working conditions, benefits etc. If we were to have IAEP be the exclusive bargaining agent, the contract would be vulnerable much the same way it would have been with NEMSA. This is why it is important to wait and vote for our new representation towards the end of our contract. Furthermore, NEMSA may have had more success with fence sitters had they planned the secession at the end of the contract. Then there would be nothing to lose.

It seems to me that we are better off, keeping the contract intact a little longer. I agree with the "fab five" on the fact that we need to wait. I agree with Vernon that IAEP is not a welcome deal since I did not have a voice in the matter. No self respecting union paramedic is going to throw flowers at this whole IAEP service agreement unless they believe the potential harm that could come to us. IAEP and "fab five", you have a long row to hoe. I won't detract but this situation is difficult to support without arguementation, debate and rhetoric.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Forfend,

The debates have already taken place. The vote has already occurred. People were well aware of the service agreement between SEIU and the IAEP. 604 people spoke out and said they did not want IAEP/SEIU/service agreement. 660 people voted that they do want SEIU/IAEP with the service agreement. It is now in the hands of the NLRB. In the meantime, we are not going to sit around and wait for an answer, particularly when no one, including the NLRB, knows when that answer will come. We are going forward, because it is in the best interest of the members.

jsahagun · Member

Vernon,

NEMSA themselves acknowledeged IAEP as being legitimate when they agreed to debate with them.

In Unity,

JONATHAN SAHAGUN MICP, NREMTP, STEWARD COCO

-- Edited by jsahagun at 19:46, 2004-09-30

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

So NEMSA debating IAEP somehow equals justification of 1 COCO Steward, 1 Santa Cruz Steward and 2 unelected members making a decision for 2400 EMS workers to enter a service agreement with IAEP?

Your logic sir needs some serious evaluation.

Vernon

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Vernon,

Everybody cast their vote, aware that there was a service agreement between IAEP and SEIU Local 250. No member was without a phone call, a face to face or literature that came to them via the United States Post Office. I remember when NEMSA supporters did not like receiving the mailers, phone calls and especially the face to face from 250 and IAEP staff. The cries were heard about how hard it was to get an ambulance in service because staff from 250 and IAEP were trying to talk and include them in what was happening with the vote.

The birth of the service agreement between SEIU Local 250, "the largest healthcare union in the country", and IAEP, "the largest EMS organization in the country", came about with a larger group of members than when NEMSA supporters came to "assist" with our Taft-Hartley Health Trust fiasco last May and June. It is the same number of members affected by the Trust as are affected by whether we have IAEP or SEIU 250.