Sorry Erin if I am exploiting your posts, but I just thought this truly was awesome. This really does explain quite a bit, and I hope everyone reads this again, and thinks about it. We all have to think to ourselves what are we really here for? To be better or worse? Lets really think about it, and why are some people so head over heels for tearing this unit apart? It does not make sense any more. What did some of you really have to gain personaly from NEMSA that it is worth causing this division and anger?
"You can certainly choose to cause division and tear this union apart out of spite. You can do that until there's another election, or counties decertify and split off once the NLRB time limits are met. Like I said on another thread, that will be the story of us. A labor group that cannabalized itself into extinction. I do speculate that the only reason this is the strategy is because some had a personal investment beyond the welfare of the members. Otherwise, you wouldn't support an agenda that will decimate all. You would raise your objections, come to a solution that would remedy your complaints for the meantime (because another instant NLRB vote is impossible), and work with and watchdog the building of the local until it is time for another vote, or whatever is on your agenda. Whatever is built need not be lost in the future. People can be voted out as well as in. Choose well your hills you decide to die on. There is the welfare of the troops to consider."-Erin M.
Yes Nate you and Erin are right some had a personal investment beyond that of the members. And that someone is you my adolescent friend. You felt so important to be invited to the big IAEP meeting in Emeryville. Why do you think SEIU hand picked you Nate? It is because you are a grand and upstanding leader who has all the experience? No Nate it is because you and the other IAEP yes men/women are week and easily played. That is why they did not pick Brooks because unlike you he has a pair. SEIU is playing you and you are feeling like a king. Look at your situation Nate: You are 26; an EMT; you still live at home with your mom; you have been a steward for less than a year; you have never filed a grievance; never even met Floyd or Lou let alone sat across the table form them; you have never been in a single negotiation for anything; you have never been to an SEIU leadership conference. So tell me Nate did they pick you because you play a mean play station? No they picked you because you are week, Naive and easy to program because you want so much to be somebody. That’s great Nate, but go be somebody on the backs of someone else. I do not want a snot nose little child who couldn't find his butt with both hands trying to find himself at our expense. Steve Brooks knows all too well how that works.
As to the other three that were at the big meeting, where you sold us all out: You had Jonathan Sahagan – A great guy, but again inexperienced and in allot of trouble at AMR (Demoted from Paramedic to EMT) and owing 250 his job, so do you think he was going to stand up against them? I think not. Then Todd Whilhoyte who was petitioned out of being a steward so he had a score to settle with the people in Sac who rejected him. Then that leaves Shanoa who was your back up from here in Santa Cruz and not a steward at all. There were two others; Erin from Monterey and Jeff from Shasta, but they were both lost time reps and on 250’s pay roll so they don’t even count. And if you really want to talk about a personal stake, Erin had her sites on making sure she didn’t get sued for 5 million dollars so she there is no way she would have said anything against 250, she would have signed all our donor cards for us to give away our livers if she had to.
So when Erin says that people had a personal stake she couldn’t be more correct.
Things are a little different when the truth comes out aren’t they Nate?
The last person that made choices for me was my mom. I left home when I was 16 yrs old and that most certainly was not yesterday. When on lost time I still make my own choices ie when to go home and how to vote.I am sure we have met Medic One and you certainly know these things about who I am. Jeff
We have met and I do know that about you. I did not direct my comments towards you, but merely pointed out that you were on 250's pay roll and therefore could not be looked at as objective.
I do think that you and many others have been duped. What bothers me is that pride has set in and people are embarrassed to admit it so they fight even harder to justify there knowingly erroneous alliances.
IAEP is bad news Jeff and I think you know it. They are part of the SEIU machine that has to constantly be fed so it can dominate the political scene.
You more than anyone should know that big government is the name of their game and we are in a private industry. They will gladly take our dues, but their ultimate goal is public take over that is exactly why you will never see any real resistance to the fire depts taking over our jobs. Think about it Jeff. There was a reason that the international took over this whole thing. Independent unions are the single most biggest threat to SEIU’s and AFL-CIO’s power and grip on this nation. This runs allot deeper and has much farther reaching implications than people realize. Why do you think they have fought so hard to stop this? It’s not because they care about us Jeff.
I think you are a strait shooter Jeff; otherwise you wouldn't be a Republican!
Did any of the NEMSA supports ever stop to think that maybe we knew the chance we were taking with IAEP? Personally I knew it wasnt rosy on either side, both sides and their propaganda absolutely nausteated be going into the election. I knew about IAEP being a NAGE division. I also knew how NEMSA was a new association. I merely looked at the points, and made a decision based on my personal opinions. I am now choosing to support my decisions, and try to get things off on the right foot with that decision. I mean cmon, this is our future here. I know how IAEP is just a division, not its own entity. I know that the vote hasnt been certified. I know about these things. And every one one this board knows about these things. We have just chosen to start things off by being proactive and having a say in forming our IAEP local. If we sat here quietly and did nothing, what kind of example would we be setting, and what kind of local would we be establishing? I have accepted the fact that IAEP is a division of NAGE, and not its own independent union. I knew this before the vote, I can live with that. If there is a run off or new election down the road, I will deal with that at the time. But for the time being, I have chosen to support the local that I voted for, and I dont see how that makes be a bad guy. If I was a NEMSA supporter, wouldnt they want me to support what I voted for??? If Vern wants to consider me a "CoCo goon" because of my County of employment, so be it. Its immature and uneducated, but Im not gonna stoop to that level. If Medic One wants to keep questioning my "credibility" just because I posted under a different name because of a password problem, so be it. Im not gonna result to the propaganda or mud slinging. My point out of all this is, please stop thinking that we are all idiots and dont know about some of things that are going on. We are adults, we are professionals who are good at what we do. Can we play nice in the sand box? Or are we going to continually be berated and called idiots because of who we voted for? 100 years from now, no one knows how IAEP, SEIU, or NEMSA will look. I decided to go the IAEP route, and Im now going to support it and do my best to make it work. If IAEP screws things up, and another vote happens down the road, I will reconsider things at that time. But for the time being, I have made a decision, voted based on that decision, and have chosen to support that decision. And I dont care what insults Vernon, Medic One, or any other person sends my way.
Your post is good, not that you need me telling you that, but what is missing here is that is does not matter how good IAEP is or isn't. What matters is that IAEP is here illegitimately. I keep saying this and will continue to say this, Just Like Kevin Tarbell said it. The members had no say in 250 subbing us out to IAEP. The vote my friend, no matter how much you spin it was not for IAEP. The ballot was the ballot. Ask the NLRB they will tell you that the vote was not for IAEP or the service agreement.
IAEP was brought in buy SEIU without the members buy off and is an will be illegitimate until then. This is exactly why there are strict laws that govern this kind of in the shadows activity and why the labor board is conducting an investigation.
So the "come on lets just go along" is morally wrong no matter how much you try and justify it.
Yes I have heard that also, but look around you and tell me how hard they have fought? You work in Sac right? 100's of layoffs to fire. Stockton, Oakland, Santa Clara, the list goes on and on. So for every token fight that SEIU does there are 1000 that they don't even bat an eye at
If the labor board rules against the IAEP switch then IAEP goes away and 250 remains. Which in my opinion is a much better option than IAEP, but they are only the lesser of the two evils.
So expending all this energy jumping on this new by-laws and local structure stuff is not only wrong because of the way it was shoved down our throats, but it may all be gone tomorrow, besides a new vote is probably going to happen and the whole thing could be gone.
I never said whether IAEP was a good local or not. I dont know that yet. As far as Im concerned, they start with a clean slate.
Regarding them being illegitimate, I knew what I was getting into when I voted SEIU. Technically voting SEIU meant we kept SEIU, just that following the election, an agreement was going to be entered into with IAEP. I knew that was going to happen, it was explained to me before the election. I was willing to accept that. If people knew about the agreement and didnt want IAEP to be in the picture, they shouldve voted "neither" or "NEMSA". They had that option. Now I dont know if other counties were advised of the IAEP agreement before the election, I can only state I did know about it, and was willing to go along with it. If someone knew about the agreement, yet voted SEIU and now wants to complain about the agreement, then that is ignorant to me. That is like voting for a President who states he is going to make abortion illegal, yet when he gets in office and follows through with that promise, someone gets ****ed at him and states they wished they hadnt voted for him. I just dont understand someone who does something like that. If you were never advised of the IAEP agreement ahead of time prior to the election, then I can understand your frustration Vernon. But you have never stated that you didnt know about it ahead of time. If you did know about it, and still chose to vote 250, then I cant feel bad for you, Im sorry.
One last thing...us all getting along has nothing to do with being "morally right or wrong." It just means we handle our arguments in a mature manner, and not with name calling. A civil and educated debate is a positive thing that everyone benefits from. Unfortunately, far too few of the posts lately have been civil or educated.
Thank you for the prior civil response without any name callng, its appreciated.
To answer your post earlier I have been a shop steward for about 3 years. Not long at all, but certainly more then less then a year. Secondly I rent a studio 3 blocks east of Morrisey Blvd. I would be glad to give you a tour, you will then see that I live there alone, unless you count my cat. You are correct to say that a short time ago I did reside at my mothers house. If you must know why, since you bring this up everyday, it was due to the fact that my ex-girlfriend, whose house I was living at, passed away in a car accident. I am very sorry if this situation is not ok with you, but I would be glad to sit down and talk with you about it, just let me know when is good for you. If anyone else has a problem with my choice of living situation in the past after this event, just let me know. Your insults about my living situation have crossed the line, and I hope you realize how foolish you sound. Also, if Steve is giving you this information, that is very unethical, and I will make note to confront him about first thing next shift. You hint that you get all your info from him, so I'll take that as a yes. Also, You stated I am an EMT. How could I possibly work in Santa Cruz for AMR if I was an EMT. I have been a paramedic here for about 5 years. But I guess since you work here you already knew that. You sound like you work at the liquer store so I would probably curb your insults. Also, are you saying that EMT's don't have a voice? I'll make sure that people understand you don't respect EMT'S. Another point, I have never had one clinical issue in the 5 years I've been a medic, I have heard quite different about you, and have heard you were almost termed once for major clinical issues. We can certainly let the cat out of the bag here if you want, just give us the signal. Also, you stated I was 26, I am in fact 25..Sorry that someone of your age can't handle the fact that people quite a bit younger then you are actually getting off their butts and trying to make a difference, rather then just insult. Medic One, I am giving you an official invite to come talk to members about me, jeff the two stewards here. I am not sure where your getting your information, but most people here reading your posts are laughing. I believe what you are trying to do is get us to bash steve, it isn't going to work. Once again I will reiterate, Steve resigned. I played no role in his resignation. I am one of steves biggest fans. Me and Jeff will make best of our situation. We have experience filing greivances. I never saw Steve file a grievance since ive been here, which is fine. One thing happening right now, is with all the communication we have had with other counties, we have infinite help from many people. We will be just fine, we have resources. I would love steve to be a steward again, but steve resigning, and other stewards doing the same is not going to sink the ship. We will survive, even when things get rough. It is those stewards decisions to resign, do not blame us for trying to build our local. Don't become angry with us when we succeed without your help. Steve would be awesome to have on a contract negotiating commitee, but if he doesn't want to, well we will fill the spot with new blood. Whatever it takes, we will do our best, and that is all we can do. Sorry that isn't good enough for you. By the way, you stated that Steve is the only one here that has a "pair". That is such a mature and non-adolescent statement, you are awesome! Obviously you don't have a pair since you are scared out of your mind to post your name.
-Looks like you can't find your butt with your own two hands, and your nose is dripping snot now, sorry.
That is nice that you are out on you own now. Congratulations! I'm sure you are missed at home. I am glad you are seeking validation and sympathy for the tragic death of your girlfriend, but save it. Every one on this site has had a tragedy in there life you are not special, and exploiting your personal sorrows for political gain is very unethical. Also showing the posts to all your friends and neighbors and crying about how bad you are treated is also a sign of extreme insecurity and utter weakness. Why do you need others to validate you Nate?
Back to high school Nate. Isn't it time for Steve's knife turning Nate? I can't believe you would screw Steve over so you could be the popular kid and then say you are his biggest fan. You have no ethics and you expect us to think that you have the best interests of the members in mind. You have the best interests of Nate in mind. If you cared about the EMS workers that you stroke so much from the other counties why didn't you say anything at the meeting in Emeryville about no one being there Nate? Answer that one tough guy. You can't because you sold everyone out Nate. Who the *** gave you the right to speak for 2400 people Nate? Who?
Say Hi to all your friends for me Nate and Be safe Nate
I have never been disgusted by anybody the way you disgust me. Nate tells you why he lived at home for a short while and gives you the circumstances. You turn that on him as him being political. I am so glad that NEMSA will not be representing our interests. After seeing the Tim Bonifay letter and now your disgusting post, I know that you people that support NEMSA are psychopaths.
medic one, so get it straight, do you want to talk about union stuff, which I would be happy to, and would love to respect your living situation, or would you rather talk about my living situation? Your the one that started it, so now you are going to have to choke on your own grossness. You kept bringing it up, in almost every post about me, so I told you why. You are a sorry excuse for an ems worker. What an identity crisis you have. loser
Wait a minute, let me get this straight. Medic one tries to point out that Nate lives at home, using it to try to be derogatory, even though it means nothings and is very childish on medic's part. When Nate explains he is living back at home because of the unfortunate death of his girl friend, Medic shoots back and claims he is using the tragedy for political gain, and "everyone deals with tragedy." Even though it has been Medic that has been the one rescently been bringing up that Nate lives at home, not Nate. My gosh, I knew Medic was a prick before, but to say this about the tragic death of his girlfriend absolutely infuriates me. Medic has got to be the biggest prick I have found on these boards. Satan himself is nauseated about him right now.
I could care less why Nate lives at home. I agree with Medic that Nate brought up the entire girl friend thing to get the reaction he is getting from Erin and micp879, it looks to me that is exactly why he did it. So who is more disgusting?
Now onto what is even a bigger problem; That of Nate and Erin selling 1800 of us out.
It has been asked by multiple people on this site. I will ask it again. Who gave YOU the right to speak for 2400 people? This is what I care about, not were Nate lives or his personal problems, or how much he is offended.
I'm sure medic one will be happy, but I think for a little while I'm done on the message boards, and will just be attending meetings. This is too high school for me, and has atually made me pretty bummed out. Sorry if I really offended someone to the point that they needed to make such personal attacks on me, but you should have just spoken to me about it. I know I have been very vocal, but I remained pretty respectful, even when I disagree with someone. obviously medic one you have shown that you deal with differance of opinions by harshly insulting people. I am curious as to what kind of problem sovling environment you grew up in? How do you honestly work in this proffession without having teamwork skills? I am very sorry your bullying tactics did not work in the campaign, but they will not work here now. Maybe I'll see you around in some meetings if you ever decide to get off your butt and actually try to make a difference. When and if that happens we will talk then, and we will see if you are really strong enough to stand behind what you say, or if you just talk big when your sitting behind your computer. I for one am so relieve people like you are not making all the decisions for us.
I don't think playing the martyr really helps you here. Medic one's response was not altogether out of line. I have observed your posts and you are as equally venomous. Based on your other posts, I too think you have crossed the line in trying to elicit a response of sympathy for your tragedy.
What is more disturbing and is cause for righteous indignation is still the fact that you took it upon yourself to speak for 2400 people in a backroom IAEP/250 meeting that over 1800 of us and our elected leaders were purposely kept out of. Medic's offenses, that have no practical impact on any of us, pale in comparison to the deceit that you embraced then and continue to sanction now.
I am sorry for your loss, but I am not buying the martyr play. I suggest you stop using it.
Ok Vernon, your right, Medic One has a right to keep talking about my personal past living situations. He really makes some awesome and valid points. In fact I think I was probably wrong for trying to explain the history behind my personal life. I mean what was I thinking? You are so right, I have totally attacked medic one just how he has attacked me, it is quite obvious. Finaly I realize now that I should have never been involved in the union because of my young age! And also why did I ever think I could become involved since I spent some time living at home! I should have totally been disqualified. Too bad NEMSA didn't win because then you guys could just disqualify young guys like me. You could especially disqualify people from participating in the union strictly on the basis of their living situation! What a grand idea! I will keep it in mind for our IAEP local bylaws! I think it is an awesome technique in how you guys are attacking IAEP because some of its supporters are young. Young people suck, we all know that. I think we should spread your guys' advice around and tell all the young members to just pay their dues, and not be involved. You guys have been right all along! Thanks for finally making me realize how it is my fault for medic one's insults! Sorry I ever doubted you guys. Long Live NEMSA!!!!!!
P.S. I demand a revote, but please only people above the age of 30 should vote, and only people willing to vote for NEMSA should vote ok? It really is better and fair that way, just trust vernon, he is totally trustfull, and is obviously willing to stand behind everything he says because he signs his name everytime.
Nate explained his reason for living at his parents home temporarily because he no longer lived with his girlfriend that was killed in a car accident.
Medic One and Vernon, you boys are foul beyond belief. Death is something that is life altering. When somebody dies, your life patterns change and you usually must readjust in a safe environment.
It is obvious that Medic One and Vernon have never been loved and are incapable of love. I would give you a liberal pardon since you are both a couple of victims of a cold and cruel world, but that would validate your spiritually odious demeanor.
You both should find another line of work. You are very destructive to EMS. We will never prosper with such repugnant representatives among our ranks. If you are the experienced leaders of EMS that you claim to be, it is evident why fire medics are able to easily move in and take over our occupation.
