Insanity

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Insanity

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Agreed

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Good Lord. Get over yourself. Just as IAEP voters have to come to a "bridge" with nemsa advocates because the vote was so close, so do you. Approximately 50% of the voters didn't possess the visceral hatred of SEIU like you. They saw the advantage of being linked up to something bigger. 250 isn't SEIU at large, diverse personalities abound. You wear blinders. Get over your dysfunctional relationship and move on, if you are true unionists you'll be able to.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Is that you talking or is it the 5 million?

You have lost all credibility after I found out about that little manuver.

Your screen name fits. Of course you want to move on it gives you a chance to hide what you are really about.

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

Let me see if I have this straight, to be a true unionist, you must follow blindly, question nothing and take all that is forced upon you.....Sounds great if you’re a Jelly fish....If you do not see the blinding sunshine that comes from IAEP, you have blinders on......So your opinion of a good unionist is someone that does what his/her union tells them without question....Well that explains your support of IAEP

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Oh brother. Pecking chickens.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Stellar response

Run with that money Erin

Play with My Money · Senior Member

This was supposed to be nemsa's money, we took our money and ran.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Whatever you say Erin.

There are 5 million facts that say otherwise

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 17:08, 2004-10-05

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Medic One has one worthwhile quote, "where's the proof Skippy?"

STRIFE · Senior Member

Old Rhino brings up a good point of "following Blindly". I can speak for myself, and my co-workers in that that is exactly what NEMSA was asking us to do! Don't ask financial questions, don't ask for a plan, don't ask why NEMSA leaders are acting like angry children......"JUST BE MAD AT SEIU AND VOTE FOR NEMSA" was all we got! I know some people were upset with SEIU L250. But I can tell you this, the president of L250 never told us because of our age that our opinions were invalid. The NEMSA president however did. The L250 president never told us that since we have only worked here from anywhere between 3-6 years that our we couldn't be involved, the NEMSA president did. We were told When I asked from IAEP for their financial structure (since we will be giving them our money!) they gave it to me over the phone in 30 minutes! When we asked NEMSA for same, we were told different things, first that it was a trade secret, then that they were in the car.....

Forfend · Senior Member

I really like seeing old quotes used on new threads. That means that our end of season special really impacted you. Keep an eye out for the season previews coming up. We will definately have the NLRB variety show starring a diverse cast of good old fashion liberals that used to lead the "No Nukes" movement.

As for insanity, I think that it is more insane to run off with an abusive man for a live in relationship than to move in with a 2nd cousin once removed that is peaceful and compatible.

5 million pecking chickens are loose.

See ya out there.............

Mean Medic

911Driver · Veteran Member

Someone once said the definition of insanity is:

The repeating of the same acts but expecting different results each time.

I think that pretty well sums up changing from one SEIU union for another.

Actually, this sums up NEMSA'a revote attempts........

STRIFE · Senior Member

This is pretty funny, even Aaron has to admit he kinda got cought with his foot in his mouth on this one. As we speak NEMSA is in Glendale trying to get a decert going down there. I heard 3 members out of a workforce of over 130 showed up. One person who showed up, was apparently supporting NEMSA, but after the meeting actually took IAEP petitions out and started to get signatures from members for a move to go with IAEP! Maybe "repeating the same act" down there isn't going to provide a different result either.

STRIFE · Senior Member

jeez I wonder how NEMSA was going to pay for all the jobs they offered to everyone and their cat.

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

IAEP is down in L.A. Lying their rear ends off about NEMSA, and trying to build a petition to get Carlos to pull his petition.....They are trying to end this thing without letting people have their right to vote. I was at the meeting the cute cat is speaking about. Carlos never said "I do not support the members and I will not pull the decert." That is pure B.S. what Carlos was saying was, first before he pulled the petition he wanted to verify with the people on the list that they where sure they understood what signing the petition meant. Secondly, he felt that letting people vote was the best way to democratically solve this issue. It was the IAEP Jerry’s kids at the meeting that kept saying he didn’t support the members if he didn’t pull the petition...They are trying to buffalo him in to doing their bidding. Letting people vote harms no one, Carlos cares more about his members letting them vote than by pulling the petition. Ok, lets say IAEP gets 76 signatures on its petition to pull the vote and Carlos does it. Then 40+ people never got the opportunity to have their voice heard. Yea, that sounds like IAEP’s idea of fair. Besides, if they get all the signatures then why be afraid of having a vote. Having votes is suppose to be what unions are all about. Plus, from what I’m hearing from members down there IAEP is lying its ass off to get people to sign the petition. Its really sickening when you hear the crap they are saying. "Go with Nemsa your dues are going to be a $100.00 a month" and "if you have a grievance you (out of your pocket) have to pay the Nemsa lawyer 250.00 an hour".....With lies like that floating around Carlos is not duty bound to pull that petition.

Also, for the record Carlos was not offered a job with NEMSA, that is another B.S. lie put out by the IAEP’s Jerry’s kids to discredit him.....Carlos, had no one kicked off the property, In fact IAEP has had a meeting on the property. NEMSA has not been allowed on the property. AMR claims the IAEP meeting got snuck by them, they do not want either side on the property....If you use the Jerry’s kids logic here, then AMR So.Cal is supporting IAEP, IAEP is in bed with AMR. Because they know how weak IAEP is by looking at all the crappy contracts around So.Cal.

Let Hollywood/Glendale vote. What are you scared of IAEP, that they’ll find out how much you have been lying to them before vote day.

What is with SEIU unions(IAEP, NAGE L250) always wanting to deny people their right to vote. Stand firm Carlos Let your people have their right to vote.

TheCuteCat · Veteran Member

You are right when you said Carlos didn't say that at the NEMSA meeting. If you read my post correctly, you will then see that I never said it was in the NEMSA meeting. It was at the Main, and he said it to other North Hollywood members.

If Carlos thought it would be best for the members to take a vote, then why did he offer to pull the decert if IAEP got 76 signatures?? If you don't believe me, I can copy and paste his email here. All the IAEP stated, was that the people who signed didn't even want a vote to happen, that they just wanted the service agreement between the IAEP and SEIU to happen. Not too many people trust Carlos down there, as much as he might not like to hear that.

I agree that he should go over anything he needs to, with people who signed the petition. However, it is only fair that Carlos and an IAEP person do it together, that way nothing is misunderstood.

Since you were also at the meeting, you would have heard a member state that she was misled by Carlos' petition in the first place. She didn't know what the hell she was signing.

Well, what about the last 40 people who's voice wasn't heard on the first petition? It is once again, okay for the NEMSA advocates to leave people out of the loop, but if by chance IAEP does it, it is not okay??? UMMMMMMMMMM, okay??

And, who are you calling Jerry's kids? It is as if you are a big man and saying that the IAEP people have Muscular Dystrophy? Do you have something against children with Muscular Dystrophy, that you would use it to degrade someone else? Um, but you are the one that doesn't get off your ass in meetings, you shut down and don't say too much....But, has a whole lot to say behind a computer. Why is that?

Another thing, if Carlos wasn't offered a job, then why is he telling everyone he was? Is he lying? Do you need me to copy and paste that email as well? I would be more than happy to do it.

Carlos DID have someone kicked off the property, TWICE!!! He went in and cried to management that they were there, and was laughing and bragging about it to another member in the break room. Want to ask him?

See, this is another attempt to disauade members in North Hollywood. NEMSA and their lies have surfaced, yet again. That is okay, IAEP will prevail and NEMSA won't have a leg to stand on.

Everyone knows, that Carlos is going to go back on his word. Not too many people trust him and they are ready for a vote, even though they don't want to hassle with it, when they know who they are going to vote for anyway.

Poor Aaron, why don't you continue to show how you are such a big man, and continue to talk all you want because when it comes down to it, nobody cares what you say. However, I am sure that they think it is quite funny that you are able to say so much behind a computer, but when you are all up in the mix, you can't say anything.

Have a nice day!

-- Edited by TheCuteCat at 11:53, 2004-10-13

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Cute cate

Or should I say Leha. So now the topic is lets attact Carlos. Carlos said this Carlos said that.

Crack!!!!!!! Thats was the so call olive branch the IAEP extrened to NEMSA supporters. It's IAEP who is attacting not NEMSA. Why do you want to bring my name up at this web site. I don't care what you say or post about me. You don't work in my divison or for AMR at all. You were fired from A.V. Tell us your sad story Leha.

So if your not working for AMR you must be getting paid by IAEP. Is the pay good. Can you put in a good word for me. You see I'm looking to buy a BMW with in the next few weeks. I sure could use extra cash.

Members vote for sale. Please send check to Carlos Osorio c/o AMR North Hollywood.

STRIFE · Senior Member

what the hell is this last post about? Send you a check? um ok guy. Anyways, I do agree that Old Rhino has so much to say on here, but doesn't ever say a word in person. I along with others do not respect his negative comments reflecting children with muscular dystrophy. I can't even believe he works in the health care field with that kind of attitude, how gross. I would ask you to no longer talk crap about people with disabilities, and to apoligize for it. I am assuming Aaron is an official representative of NEMSA since he is traveling all the way down to Glendale to sell NEMSA. I along with others will assume that NEMSA's position on children with disabilities is that they would prefer to make fun of them, and use them as a negative reference. Aaron, you have the right to have your opinions regarding labor issues, but please leave disabled people out of it. It is becoming more and more clear NEMSA's mission statement of strength through service is a lie. As for Carlos, I have never met him, and respect his passion to enact change. I just hope he does it in a way the majority of members down there want, and that he stays honest, truthful, and doesn't follow in the footsteps of the rest of the NEMSA leaders.

STRIFE · Senior Member

Also is it true Carlos is driving one of the NEMSA vehicles around down there? If it crashes can members of NEMSA be held liable since its a moving billboard of their representation?

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Old Rhino ment no direspect for any child with a handicap of any kind. What he ment was that the fab 5 were poster child for IAEP. That's all,

As far as me driving the NEMSA durango , that's my own personal choice. I do support NEMSA and I did it for advertisment. I also wear t-shirts of NEMSA, AMR, And Pittsburgh Steelers. So am I a ture supporter or as IAEP would say a paid vote.

I do not need anyone to paid me. I am a grown men making my own choices just like everyone else should. My relationship with Torren goes back 3 years and I will support him. If the members vote for their choice, that will be their choice. until the vote both parties will be talking to the members in So. Cal.

P.S you don't need to worrie about the durango. It's insured.

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

Sorry Carlos.. but I gotta do this since the NEMSA folks haven't been corrected by you by now.. I'll just take the reins in my own hand.

On Sept. 27, Carlos sent me this via email "NEMSA has ask me to come and serve on the board if they are elected" Old Rhino.. I and many others like me take that to mean that Carlos was offered a job with NEMSA, and not only do we believe that, but Carlos has confirmed it many times in person, and on the message boards of NEMSA (when there was one) and this one.

On October 6, Carlos sent me this via email "Several members have been asking members to sign a petition asking me to with drawl the NEMSA petition that I filed on behalf of the members. I have given my word to Amy, Aultum that if they get over 75 signatures that I will with drawl my petition." And he also stated in the meeting on Sept. 31, in front of about 8 employees, and in front of IAEP reps, that he would indeed pull the decert paperwork out of filing if we got the signatures. Although when it came up at the NEMSA meeting on Oct 7, he was loudly silent, and that look that Torren gave him when I told him I had it in writing that that is was Carlos stated... I truely felt sorry for Carlos.. it's like the look you get from your parents right before they really give you what for.

It should also be noted that Carlos has stated on numerous occasions that he does not support the IAEP, nor does he support the members decision if they choose IAEP, and wants nothing to do with IAEP. He has stated that he supports the members, not their decision. To which I wholeheartedly understand, he gains nothing with IAEP that he would would gain if NEMSA came in.

He will absolutley have the chance to verify the signatures when we have the alloted number, and I think he will be sincerly suprised at some of the names that have signed... I know I am.

We are not trying to "buffalo" anyone into doing anything. It is explained to the members that by signing the petition they are agreeing that they don't want to vote, that they want to move right into the service agreement with IAEP, that if they don't believe that this is the way to go, to NOT sign it, if they have more questions or want to think on it, DON'T sign it.. but people listen for 5 minutes of what the IAEP has to offer and they sign. We don't even have to get into a comparison between the two unions, they are tired of this and more occasions than I can count have stated " this NEMSA cr*p is bullsh*t and Carlos is just trying to sell us up the river so he can get more money" That's not a misquote. I've heard it on more lips then I thought possible. To be honest, I didn't think people would be receptive to this petition thing, but they are! I thought that Carlos had this division and NEMSA in the bag.. but apparently not from what the people have been saying.

I sincerly hope that Carlos does the right thing by the people when we get the signatures, and not the right thing by Torren. I agree that a vote is the best way to go, but the people are speaking and they don't want a vote. They state that they feel as though they were mislead into signing the original petition sent around by Carlos, and that this is a chance to remedy that. They don't want this thing dragged out any longer and want to get on with it... and when asked to to a debate between IAEP and NEMSA, Torren said that Thanksgiving is better for his timeline.. Sweat that! We want this done NOW, not according to Torren's schedule, NOW!

As for "lying their rears off".. all one has to do is simply state the bylaws of NEMSA when the question of dues come's up. If the by-laws are lies.. I don't know what to tell you. You pick out what you think is most damning to IAEP ( ie Section 9 of the service agreement) and state that it is illegal.. but then convenlently forget to mention that it comes after Section 8, which makes it legal... it's not supposed to be read as each section standing alone, it is to be read as a whole.. much like your by-laws.. which by the way... your addendum states something to the effect that our dues will not go up from what they are now..... people here think we pay too much as it is, and with IAEP, the dues go down..... so........ it is cheaper per a member to pay dues into IAEP then NEMSA........

By the way the cost for your lawyer, NEMSA itself has stated that it costs $225 an hour for him to work on their behalf, a fact that came into question on many an occasion on both message boards and up until your recent post, has not been denied by NEMSA. Show me where it costs less to have Tim Talbot on your side, and I'll believe you, but until that time, I'm just going to have to go with what you've not denied until now, and I feel that people have a right to know where their money is going... Which by the way.. where is the finanical projections that you promised Autumn at the meeting Oct. 7? She specifically asked for them to be given to her on the following day, to which Torren stated that he didn't have access or some such nonsense to those files while he was in LA... doesn't he have a computer/laptop, I know the hotels have courtesy fax machines.........

In anycase... whether or not NEMSA or Carlos chooses to honor the promise made by Carlos, is up to them. Carlos said that if we get the signatures he will personally tell Torren that it's over and that the members have spoken.. of course that was during a conversation between 4 of us at the main, and since I don't have it in writing, I don't expect it to be honored.. but he did give "his word".... let's see how strong that word is now......

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

You are right when you said Carlos didn't say that at the NEMSA meeting. If you read my post correctly, you will then see that I never said it was in the NEMSA meeting. It was at the Main, and he said it to other North Hollywood members. Ok, I’m not going to argue that, the way your post read to me you where speaking of the NEMSA meeting

If Carlos thought it would be best for the members to take a vote, then why did he offer to pull the decert if IAEP got 76 signatures?? If you don't believe me, I can copy and paste his email here. All the IAEP stated, was that the people who signed didn't even want a vote to happen, that they just wanted the service agreement between the IAEP and SEIU to happen. Not too many people trust Carlos down there, as much as he might not like to hear that. I’m saying Carlos does not have to honor that offer because IAEP is lying to members.

I agree that he should go over anything he needs to, with people who signed the petition. However, it is only fair that Carlos and an IAEP person do it together, that way nothing is misunderstood. If you have the names on a petition then why be afraid of a vote, Why does an IAEP person need to be with Carlos when he double checks the list, what are you afraid of? Being caught in lies about NEMSA

Since you were also at the meeting, you would have heard a member state that she was misled by Carlos' petition in the first place. She didn't know what the hell she was signing. That person was clearly an IAEP supporter and Carlos told her to her face that she knew full well what she was signing.....It was obvious she was B.S.ing because she supports IAEP now.

Well, what about the last 40 people who's voice wasn't heard on the first petition? It is once again, okay for the NEMSA advocates to leave people out of the loop, but if by chance IAEP does it, it is not okay??? UMMMMMMMMMM, okay?? Big difference here....Carlos’s petition gives everyone a chance to vote, IAEP’s does not....Carlos’s petition causes no one harm, IAEP’s does

And, who are you calling Jerry's kids? It is as if you are a big man and saying that the IAEP people have Muscular Dystrophy? Do you have something against children with Muscular Dystrophy, that you would use it to degrade someone else? Um, but you are the one that doesn't get off your ass in meetings, you shut down and don't say too much....But, has a whole lot to say behind a computer. Why is that? I didn’t notice you getting off your ass and saying a whole lot at the meeting either. I’m their to listen to what people have to say. That is why I write about it here. Also, If I’m in a meeting with members with the president of NEMSA, who do you think people want to hear from me or him. I do plenty of talking outside that forum.

Carlos DID have someone kicked off the property, TWICE!!! He went in and cried to management that they were there, and was laughing and bragging about it to another member in the break room. Want to ask him? If he got anybody kicked off the property it was because NEMSA has not been allowed on the property and he is trying to create a level playing field

See, this is another attempt to disauade members in North Hollywood. NEMSA and their lies have surfaced, yet again. That is okay, IAEP will prevail and NEMSA won't have a leg to stand on. IAEP is the one’s that are lying to people don’t get it confused

Just let Carlos know, that there are plenty of others way to get out of the field. Everyone knows, that Carlos is going to go back on his word. Not too many people trust him and they are ready for a vote, even though they don't want to hassle with it, when they know who they are going to vote for anyway. Fine, then quit hassling Carlos and let people vote

Poor Aaron, why don't you continue to show how you are such a big man, and continue to talk all the **** you want because when it comes down to it, nobody cares what you say. However, I am sure that they think it is quite funny that you are able to say so much behind a computer, but when you are all up in the mix, you can't say a damn word. I’ve covered that ground already and personal attacks on me are not going to work, I’m not as weak minded as the normal IAEP follower you talk to

Have a nice day!

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

My bad, if I offended any of you telethon watching types, Jerry’s kids is meant as Jerry Springer’s kids....I guess I shortened it in the wrong way.....From now on it will be more clear as Springer’s kids.....

Forfend · Senior Member

I can't track with this thread.

All I know is that there is a definate history of NEMSA using AMR to remove with coercion the IAEP reps.

I also know that I can't make sense of what Carlos writes and I'm sure it must be worse in person.

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Amy

My word was given, but yours and IAEP was not. You see if any one is lying is all the IAEP supporters. You, Autum, and Leha, and Paul. Everyone one of you have been lying to the members about me. Since you all can't seem to tell the members the truth. Yes the truth. The members are just tired all the B.S.

You said that you did not want another No. Cal issue in our division. But here you are on IAEP web site posting . Did I saying anything. No Your friend Leha started the B.S first.

If the members don't care about me or NEMSA then let them VOTE. That's right vote. I'm saying here. I will not pull the petition. You all want to trash me, go ahead. Be childish. I don't care.

The vote will be the only way you will get rid of NEMSA or me. See you at the election. I'm done with this issue.

Carlos

Forfend · Senior Member

Ok I am really confused now.

Does this mean that if the IAEP folks don't get all the required 76 signatures that the decert continues? I have gone cross eyed with all the personal attacks on me since I consistently point out how emtmichelle is just alis in another dress. So I am assuming that the 76 signatures are meaningless and Carlos will continue the vote.

COEMS1 · Veteran Member

Yes. Since IAEP has continue to lie to the members and personal attack me, I will not pull the petition. I also had 75 signature wanting to decert 250. Now I will let the vote decide who the members want.

Medic_One · Senior Member

Just a little issue for Jerry's kids. AMR is not going to recognize any service agreement n SO. Cal. Managment has stated it so what are you going to do now?

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

Carlos, I don't have to waste my time or energy "lying" about you.. your actions speak for themselves. As a matter of fact, I make it a point to NOT talk about you. As for my promise to keep the NorCal drama out of our division.. it's still my mission. I've been posting on this site ever since it came into being.. If you don't like to have the truth in black and white, don't read it. I'm only quoting you and recanting your actions. If you don't like how you are being betrayed, don't act like an *ss, and quit changing your story, or at least make sure that you tell everyone the same story instead of a new one for each person. I don't state things that aren't backed up by writing.. ie, the service agreement, the NEMSA bylaws, your personal "word" to follow through with a promise, the Louis Meyer letter stating that they recognize IAEP as the representing union in NorCal after the vote... I don't have to lie Carlos, that's not my reputation, it's yours.

And, Old Rhino and Carlos too.. let me get this straight.. you believe that if someone lies to you it's therefore OK for you to lie to others..... every heard the expression "be a bigger man"??

Thanks for showing me how strong your word really is Carlos. As I said before, I was leary to trust you when you stated "You have my word"... and I was correct in my not believing you. You not only lied to my face, but you lied to the people that you took the responsibility to represent when you put in the paperwork for a decert.. You're right.. we will see which way the people sway when they vote, and because of your untrustworthy actions, continued going back on "your word", and obvious personal gain you stand to aqcuire should NEMSA have a snowballs chance in hell to win the vote, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't swing your way. Keep in mind Carlos, the union is not the only thing on the line anymore, your reputation and credibility is at stake... not mine. I gain nothing out of all this union cr*p, except the peace of mind that I will be represented by a union that is EMS only, has the history and financial support to represent us most effectively, fair and knowlegable staff, and so much more.. I just don't have the time nor space to continue. I've not made promises nor statements that I can't ( or won't as in your case) follow through and back up.

I can't imagine what you think I'm "lying" about this time, but I'm sure that anything that I believe in that you don't condone is considered a lie in the book of NEMSA. Get over yourself Carlos, I don't hold you in that high of regard anymore since you've gone back on your word.. again. You've lost my respect as a coworker and representative of a worthy Union... not that it matters to you.