BYLAW SPIN

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

BYLAW SPIN

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

Hey Vern... are these "facts" more of what you heard from others.. or have you actually been at these meeetings of low turn out.. and if not... how come?? Why can't you run your mouth in a forum where you can get actual answers instead of regurgitating what someone who heard from someone else who's friend overheard in the public restroom told you? If you want to really get something going.. why don't you show up to these meetings instead of just poisoning the message board with your unfounded blaaaaaahhhhhh.......

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Sorry to burst your bubble there Amy, but the numbers are from the minutes of the meetings as recorded by IAEP.

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 22:54, 2004-10-18

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

you could never burst my bubble Vern, because you can never give proof of your "facts".... we're supposed to take it based on your word.. and I just don't trust your "word" ... so.. bubble still intact Vern!

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Your IAEP's number one groupie Amy, check the minutes yourself.

Facts are facts. IAEP is not supported here or in LA

-- Edited by Vernon Thymes at 23:00, 2004-10-18

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

.. that's a good one Vern...

Tell me again why you didn't attend the afore said meeting???

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

So you don't want to check the minutes? Why is that Amy?

Amy I will be attending the meetings in my county. Unlike the IAEP groupies I do not follow them around everywhere they go. Which reminds me didn't you come up here and follow them around everywhere before the vote?

Did 250 or IAEP pay for you to be up here or did you do it all on your own? Who paid for the travel? Who paid for the hotel? Who paid for the food? It was my dues that paid your way Amy you should be little nicer to me.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

I feel another Amy Martin novel coming

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

Why don't I check the minutes Vern.. because I don't have access to them..as of tonight.. nor does it really matter to me since.. whether or not I know the actual numbers... you still weren't in attendence of these meetings.. so.. you have no facts.. just second hand gossip.

And I do believe that I addressed the issue of how it was that I came to visit your town/county and my reasons for being there loooong ago..and you had no issue with it then(please see the post titled "Torren lies" dated Aug. 26 for details)...... and since I was a dues paying member or IAEP for 5 years.. I consider it as some my money that paid for my travel coming back to me directly since I never needed to file a greivence, and therefore never go into arbitration....

How do you figure that "your" dues paid for anything prior to the vote.. you weren't an IAEP dues payer then.... You were SEIU.. just like I was then and am now...

Come up with any answer yet to my repeated question of why you weren't at the meeting, Vern?

-- Edited by Clear_my_side at 23:27, 2004-10-18

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

by the way... for your research purposes.. the name of the thread was changed for "Torren lies" to "NEMSA info"...

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Amy oh AAAAAmy are you there Amy?

Just to make it easy for you I will re-post my response to your question that I answered quite clearly.

Amy I will be attending the meetings in my county. Unlike the IAEP groupies I do not follow them around everywhere they go. Which reminds me didn't you come up here and follow them around everywhere before the vote?

It is nice to know that IAEP is paying you. Well we now see your motivation in North Hollywood. Is that credibility I hear leaving the room?

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

What are you talking about.. where do you get the idea that IAEP is "paying" me?? HELLLOOOO?? Are you illiterate?? Did you even read the post that I was referring to?? Try something else to discredit me with... getting paid by IAEP.... try again Vern...

I didn't ask you if you were going to be attending meetings in the future.. I asked why you hadn't been attending the meetings that you are quoting....

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: Vernon Thymes
"I feel another Amy Martin novel coming"

glad to see that you can now spell my name correctly.. by the way.. what was your name again???

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

and since I was a dues paying member or IAEP for 5 years.. I consider it as some my money that paid for my travel coming back to me directly since I never needed to file a greivence, and therefore never go into arbitration.... Clear my side (Amy Martin)

Amy I don't need to discredit you. You just did it yourself. IAEP is paying you. A little fact that is not going to go over well here or in North Hollywood

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

of course.. because NEMSA likes to spin the truth... thanks for the proof!

Exactly how is my dues money that I paid into for 5 years considered being on the IAEP payrol?? Did you even read the post that I referred you to???

Clear_my_side · Senior Member

OH.. and by the way.... I told the people down here before I went up North that IAEP invited me there and offered to pay for my ticket and room in order to make it possible for a second opinion to be had, not just one... so I don't know what kind of suprise you think you have in store.. unless you spin the facts in true NEMSA fashion........

TheCuteCat · Veteran Member

Vernon,

I think Amy already made it quite clear that she is not on IAEP's payroll. Yes, they did pay for her travel, but even then she made it quite clear to them and her division that she was only there on a facts finding mission. She toted pen and paper in hand to each place we went to. She took very good notes only to bring back to her own division since they would be going through the same campaign. Now that they are, Amy has had the opportunity to see both sides (IAEP and NEMSA). Unfortunately for NEMSA she feels IAEP is the better Union. She allows other members to have their opinions and doesn't push any ideas onto them. She is very respectful of her co-workers.

However, she has educated herself on both sides and has made an opinion. You have a different one, yet want to smack her's down. She is NOT on IAEP's payroll, but feels so strongly that she tells others about the IAEP on her her accord. Just as many more in North Hollywood, they spread the good word about the IAEP and NO ONE is on their payroll.

Oh, but I do have question for you. Carlos took some days off to help NEMSA with their campaign in North Hollywood, he also makes their t-shirts (this is is no way a dig to you Carlos, just facts!), he was also promised a job..."Well we now see his motivation in North Hollywood" -(Vernon) My question is, even though Amy is NOT being paid, but still spreading the word, this discredit's her? What about Carlos? Does that mean his motivation would be the same as what you are saying about Amy in North Hollywood?

-- Edited by TheCuteCat at 09:53, 2004-10-19

Old Rhino · Veteran Member

I’m going to add my 2 cents to this argument. Just as TheCuteCat has.

First, Many on this forum have stated how the suffered and paid vast amounts of money to support IAEP. Because, they believe so highly that IAEP is the greatest EMS union on the Planet and NEMSA sucks. Now it keeps being stated that these hard working servants of all that is good where not paid by 250 or IAEP to due this noble deed. This is plainly not true. Lost time (wage reimbursement), travel expenses, hotels, and meals are all forms of payment. They may not be getting a pay check from IAEP or SEIU but they are being paid. How many of these saints of IAEP would have used all of their PTO, Money on gas, money on hotels, and money on food. To support IAEP if they where not getting paid to do it. How many of us hard working EMS professional have the money to take a week or two off work and travel as much as 400 miles, pay for a hotel and our food, to travel around and speak great things about IAEP......I’ve got news for you If I’m talking a couple of weeks off I’m going somewhere fun and the last thing I’m thinking about is work and the union. The fact is either IAEP or SEIU paid for your support. And if your support has been paid for your credibility is compromised.

Before any of you start in on me I’ve never received a paycheck from NEMSA, given a Durango, Or offered a job. I have paid for meals and gas. My support of NEMSA has cost me a lot. If your going to dispute this then post your proof.

Second Issue, The by-laws meetings. I have made Many friends in just about every county while campaigning for NEMSA. I’m sure most of have seen me in your counties promoting NEMSA. I have been talking to those friends in counties that have had By-laws meetings and what Vernon is saying is true. I don’t have to travel to every meeting and witness it myself to say what is going on. Many of you already know I’m the Chief Steward for Sac Valley. I’ve dealt with Other stewards from around No Cal for a long time. Long before NEMSA was ever heard of. Its not hard for me to pick up the phone and talk to people in the counties that have had By-laws meetings and ask them "What’s going on in your county". So when I tell you that Vernon is telling the truth you can believe it. People are not accepting IAEP. They feel it is Illegitimate. I know you are going to point at the vote tallies. 660 to 606. Well I truly believe that the 250 for IAEP thing confused people. As well as the fact that a lot of people did not get off their butts and vote and are now regretting it. 660 may have voted for 250/IAEP but 1740 did not. I truly believe that if there is a re-vote the result is going to be very different. If I didn’t believe this I would not still be fighting for NEMSA.

Great now you’ve made me write an Amy style novel.

The Rat Killer · Veteran Member

You IAEP clowns got 660 votes. But you cant get more than 1 or 2 people to come to your stupid by-laws meetings. Either people have changed their minds about supporting IAEP or The leaders and people who do all the work for the union support NEMSA.

Which one of these is true. You IAEP geniuses

snake911 · Veteran Member

Hi Vern,
I was at the AlCo meeting and there were 3 people from AlCo there and Rod Billings was not in attendance. Whoever you get your info from is wrong. If you would check the minutes you would see very clearly who was there.

monster365 · Veteran Member

I believe Vern, I saw the stupid minutes myself. Besides that I want to see you loser try and radify the constitution and bylaws with the membership.......

hell the way you freaks do business you.... might just have anothetr secret meeting and radify them there RIGHT.........RRROOOODDD

TheCuteCat · Veteran Member

Hi Aaron!

I am sorry that you have spent alot of your money on campaigning for NEMSA. However, I have spent alot of my own money campaigning for IAEP. I think we are in agreeance that we each believe in something so strongly, that we are willing to do this.

If you are spending your own money on campaigning for NEMSA, then why is it so hard to believe that others spend their own money on campaigning for IAEP?

You are right, my travel was paid for by the IAEP to help in Northern California. However, if I didn't believe so much in this Union Aaron, I wouldn't have taken so much time away from my family. We all worked very hard when we were there, as well as you probably did too. I missed my daughter tremendously, but I believed I was doing the right thing by helping in Northern California. I wouldn't have done this if I didn't believe in what I was there for.

As far as the By-Law meetings go, I don't know too much about them. All I know is that people are fully aware of these meetings and everyone is encouraged to go. Whether people show up or not, I don't think that has anything to do with people changing their minds. If that was true, then I would say the people who voted for NEMSA have changed their minds by going to these meetings. It is unfortunate however, that many aren't showing up. It is very important to be involved, regardless of who you voted for.

Paramaniac · Senior Member

Brad,

You are absolutely correct. I was not at the ALCO meeting nor was I in the minutes. They only assume my presence since I have been active in helping out our local. They can't imagine someone being this devoted to a union without having ulterior motives, since they all were promised their NEMSA positions without having to work for it. Therefore, they simply cannot understand anyone being this involved and dedicated without having something in return.

Again, and this will be the last time I respond directly or indirectly to the never-ending lies coming from Vernon, Monster, or Rat, they have all been caught flat out lying about events that have transpired. The fact I wasn't even at ALCO is just a garden variety lie. If they truly believed in their cause and their objections, they would feel no need to continually attempt to tear me down. They have been told innumerable times that the entire Executive Cmte and the Executive Board, will be voted in. Yet, they continue to ignore this fact and have appointed me president. As far as getting the By-Laws ratified, this union will have to deal with the possibility that the By-Laws may not be ratified by the members. We then will have to go back to the drawing board. But, we managed to outvote the nay-sayers once, despite their projected landslide, we'll do it again.

There were eight people that showed up today at CoCo, not including Pincas. I am very happy with that turn-out. We could have thirty people there and that would be viewed as poor by NEMSA. We had more people involved in the By-Laws on the very first day than NEMSA had in total! These By-Laws have a much vaster input from all the counties represented, which far outweighs the By-Laws written by the select few like Vernon and Torren. They take into consideration the feelings and energy of a much larger area than what would have been afforded you by NEMSA.

The repetitive harshness and flat-out inappropriateness shown by NEMSA in their never-ending campaign has gotten completely out of control. I am only going to post IAEP information on here. I am tired of the insults and rudeness by the extreme minority of our workforce. I totally understand the feelings of the rest of you to continue attempting to explain and clarify the lies as they continue, but I am done with it. That, in itself, will be used by Vernon and his two minions as a sign of unwillingness to discuss the issues. They have been discussed to their absolute ends, and then some.

Thank you,

Rod Billings

Shop Steward, IAEP

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Old Rhino,

I don't understand why the union compensating some expenses for members/ stewards who got involved during the election is a disqualifier for members who did this. That provision is in our CBA for a reason. Weren't you on workmans comp during the de-cert? This doesn't bother me. If you can spend time fighting for what you believe in, in regards to your union and working conditions, without consequently being punished by going bankrupt, this is o.k. with me. One of the advantages of belonging to a large solvent union, is the ability to access this resource.This is why we also have compensation for stewards representing members when they are off-duty and have to come in. It's not like there are people lining up to take on the head ache of union work. The only effect is, is that members get reimbursed for the shifts they had to give up. Is this evil? Is this a motivator for someone to change their position? Of course, the union will support members for this program who support them. It sounds like IAEP only compensated Amy for her traveling expenses. She wasn't here long. Plus, they even hung it out more because she was undecided, but willing to do it. They gave her an opportunity to see what was going to visit her bargaining group. To me, this is the union at work.

All that being said, those of us who have been involved have all suffered loss of personal time, overtime shifts, and had to give-away shifts to attend meetings. Everyone who gets involved pays. If occasionally you can do the duties without suffering financial loss, hurray.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

The bottom line is you people received a check from SEIU for your participation. When you are getting paid you become a self interested party and know longer have your co-workers interest in mind. What you say will always be tainted by who is paying you to say it.

Perhaps if you use the same philosophy of paying people to support you, you would have a better turn out at your bi-law meetings.

Good luck. Sounds like you really got the work force behind you Erin. Besides after the report coming out of Labor management Monday, Monterey is all but gone for AMR so you won't be part of any union soon. I wonder what you will be willing to do when you don't have SEIU to pay you.

TheCuteCat · Veteran Member

Vern,

I will have you know that I NEVER recieved a paycheck from SEIU or was put on lost time. However, I did help with the campaign in Northern California. As I have stated before, to Aaron, :

You are right, my travel was paid for by the IAEP to help in Northern California. However, if I didn't believe so much in this Union Aaron, I wouldn't have taken so much time away from my family. We all worked very hard when we were there, as well as you probably did too. I missed my daughter tremendously, but I believed I was doing the right thing by helping in Northern California. I wouldn't have done this if I didn't believe in what I was there for.

If this is the route you want to go Vern, then we will always drum up the fact that others were offered jobs by NEMSA, which I am sure swayed their decision as well.

I was not put on lost time and I am not sure if others were to help with the campaign, however, I am sure that if there were people, you could have been one of them. Now, I know that you are going to say that you don't support SEIU/IAEP, so you wouldn't help in any way or form, no matter how much money was offered. Maybe you would even say it a little more constructively. But, how is it that YOU can support NEMSA for free, but others cannot support SEIU/IAEP for free? Are you the only exception or are there others in the NEMSA force? You just don't make sense. I congratulate you on your effort to discredit people's intentions, but it is just not going to work. It is too easy to try to discredit people on either side when money is involved. People from glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Reimbursed for travel expenses; Airline tickets paid for; meals paid for, hotel paid for. That my friend is hardly doing it for free.

Just because you or others were not on lost time does not mean that there was not a monetary pay out for your participation. You received compensation by means of goods or services rendered. Under the law you were paid.

Saying that you and Erin and Amy are justified because someone was offered a job with NEMSA doesn't work. You see you have no proof that a job offer was ever made, nor does it compare. You and the others have in reality received tangible legal tender in the form of goods and services. A job offer if ever proven, which I doubt, hardly comes close to the actual payment you received. Let’s call a spade a spade here.

Play with My Money · Senior Member

Verny,

Once again you show you are incapable of reading anything your eyes don't want to see, or hear anything other than what you want to hear. Your illogic = since I'm getting a paycheck from AMR, I shouldn't be part of a union that may take adversarial positions with them. Are they buying my "blind" support? How is having shifts covered that I missed, swaying my opinion? If I didn't support the position enough to invest time in, I could stay at work and suffer no loss. If I didn't support the union's position, why would it be offered to cover my shifts for a specified time? Your spitefulness insinuates that any IAEP supporter is stupid and blind, and only does what they are told. Whatever.

We don't need you to educate us on our situation in Monterey. And, as Bob Z. pointed out, the workforce took care of itself in the RFP political arena. This only helps AMR against competitors. We always have our work cut out for us. If AMR isn't the winner, we'll still be union. The next hurdle will be for the new employer to recognize the union. Labor groups organizing is a federal protection.

As far as my efforts, and my co-workers efforts, ceasing due to no SEIU "paycheck", what nonsense. We've spent countless hours over the years of uncompensated hours to better our division, and will continue to do so.

Do you ever have any productive input anywhere?

TheCuteCat · Veteran Member

Vernon,

You are right on that first part. However, as Erin said, if I didn't believe so strongly in what I was doing, I wouldn't have spent so much time and effort into doing it. Like I have posted in other areas, I took time away from my family to be there. I will never get that time back, so it better have been worth it. In my eyes, it was. I believe in the IAEP and no one will change my mind.

As for the proof that people were offered jobs, it came straight out of Dave Turner and Carlos Osario's mouths. Is that proof enough for you? They told me themselves that they were offered jobs. I think that helps to pull a decision as well.

I guess enough time has been spent on this issue. I will never change your mind nor will you ever change my mind.

Vernon Thymes · Senior Member

Nobody is trying to change minds here.

You, Erin and others were paid to support IAEP period. That is a fact. Whatever your stated motivations, does not change the fact that you were paid and that seriously calls into question what your real motives are. Agree or not that is a fact that you are going to have to deal with.