NEMSA HAS OFFICIALY BROUGHT THE PROPAGANDA AND LIES TO THE FULLEST EXTENT!!!!!! IAEP WILL BE AT THE DEBATE, TORREN AND NEMSA CAN TAKE THEIR ILLEGAL (IT IS ILLEGAL FOR IAEP TO IDENTIFY ITSELF AS SEIU/NAGE SINCE THEY ARE ACTUALLY IAEP) RULES AND HIDE BEHIND THEM LIKE THE COWARDS THEY ARE!!! IF THEY THINK THEY CAN START TAKING OUR HARD EARNED DUES AND PAY OFF THE HUMMER, AND GIVE EACH OTHER 6 FIGURE SALARIES WITH THEM, WITHOUT EVEN SHOWING AT THE DEBATE, WELL THEN THEY CAN KISS WINNING THIS ELECTION GOODBYE!!! WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THEIR NAZI LIKE TACTICS. IAEP AND THEIR NATIONAL PRESIDENT WILL BE THERE! DON'T BE BRAINWASHED INTO THE LIES!!! DON'T JUST DRINK THE KOOL AID LIKE THEY WANT US TOO! PLEASE NEMSA, YOU MIGHT AS WELL BOW OUT GRACEFULLY! STOP SENDING FAXES OF LIES AND MISINFORMATION TO ALL OF OUR AMBULANCE STATION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!!! MAYBE IF YOU ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO RUN CALLS AT NIGHT, YOU WOULD KNOW SOME OF US ARE TRYING TO SLEEP WHEN WE HAVE THE CHANCE!!! WE ARE VERY SORRY THAT THE PROSPECT OF STEALING OUR DUES IS DIMINISHING, BUT YOU CANNOT BLAME US FOR BEING SICKENED, AND NAUSEATED BY THE RELENTLESS PROPAGANDA AND LIES YOU HAVE BEEN SHOVING DOWN OUR THROATS! WE WILL ASK ONE MORE TIME, IF YOU DO NOT SHOW TOMORROW, THEN WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE OUR HARD EARNED MONEY. YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN YOURSELF A GOOD LEADER. MANY OF US ARE BEGINING TO BELIEVE AT THIS POINT THAT YOU REALLY DID COMMIT A CRIME WHEN YOU LEFT 250, MOST OF US DO NOT TRUST YOU ANYMORE. WE KNOW NOW THAT YOU NEVER PLANNED ON BEING AT THE DEBATE, WE ARE NOT IDIOTS! AT LEAST GIVE US THE CREDIT WE DESERVE ON THAT. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS, AND AT THIS POINT, YOU ARE LYING, AND ACTING COWARDLY
Wow..... I think that just summed it up for alot of people.
It is quite amusing to me that Nemsa has been faxing these letters in the middle of the night. Take it from the crews, TORREN, not too many people trust you. You are a liar and a thief. And I assure you that they DO NOT appreciate being woken up in the middle of the night with such a stupid ass fax. We have been all over this board, as well as yours, to tell you that IAEP will NOT go away. We are here NOW and we will DEFINETELY be there TOMORROW!!
Hope to see you at the debate, Torren.
P.S. You should have thought long and hard about this debate and made your decision then to decline. Now you are just making MORE excuses, but what the hell, we are getting pretty used to them.
you use Nazi and Coward, but I highly doubt you even know what you are talking about. If IAEP could take the time to go over who's moderating the debate why could they not bring up this signature issue until the last minute. I will tell you why, they where saving it as their way of getting out of sticking to any rules. As for whine about faxes, you should stop and take a look at you own side in the so called propaganda war. Iaep has the fax machines running at full speed as well, as well as emails, phone calls waking members up who have been working all night, Calling peoples houses at all hours. calling people's cellphones, (which numbers have not been supplied to 250, how are they getting those),letters, video tapes, messages in people's work mail boxes, Showing up on scenes, Ambushing poeple at hospitals. Putting paperwork all over peoples rigs and etc, etc..If you want to make a point about propaganda you had better point at IAEP as well..Plus who gave 250 premission to give my phone number to IAEP. I did not even get a choice in having IAEP come into this representation issue. As for your statement about paying of the Hummer and 6 figure salaries. You should learn the facts about your opponent before you start talking out of your rear end. if you knew anything about NEMSA's structure that you are attacking, you would know just how stupid you are sounding. Or, do you actually know the truth about NEMSA, but you are just trying to decive people into voting for IAEP. Which one is it?
Do all you little "girl's" from Santa Cruz really believe the crap you're saying? It's funny that each of you is so big behind your screen names, and on this type of forum. But when Torren or whomever else is standing in front of you, you coward's can't run away fast enough! To call someone a thief and a liar. Getting real close to getting yourselves into some hot water. See "girls" the civil standard is much less than the criminal standard. Therefore, you can be held liable in civil court much easier than in criminal court.
Now for the Nazi comments. I thought it was the NESMA supporters that were so evil and juvenile on their message board. I guess you should all work for SEIU, you proven again to be just as much as a liar as they are! Nazi? I have a sneaky suspicion that none of the you "girls" from Santa Cruz can even come close to understand the Nazi occupation, much less using the Nazi' for your sick and twisted comparrisons!
Go back and read each of your postings, and then print them off, pass them around AMR and ask what your co-workers think! Nate, if I'm not mistaken aren't you a supervisor in Santa Cruz? Nice!
Mr. Strife: Why are you yelling at everyone? Are we fussy, do you need a bottle and your wittle blankey tough guy?
Before you go yelling at a grown man, perhaps you should grow up a little bit first. You never know, you might get a dawg that bites back little boy!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for saying what we have all been thinking. NEMSA has turned out to be a sad joke. Fortunately we have intelligent and professional employees that will see through lies and vote for IAEP.
Torren – You promised me information on a health plan that would prevent my family member from changing doctors. Remember my family member that has cancer. All I wanted was a phone call from you stating that you had a plan to help us out because your proposed plan would cause my family to loose our doctors. You never got back to me with any type of information good or bad. I am disgusted with you and your organization. I take the lack of empathy towards my family personally.
Instead, Torren, and NEMSA, you burden my work with propaganda faxes in the middle of the night so I can not rest. You lie and deceive people with spinning information to fit your underhanded agenda. You stall on a debate because you are afraid to let people see your true identity as a snake in the grass. You have created NEMSA on lies. You saw dollar signs and acted on greed. What once was a good idea has now turned you into another person. A person that we can not trust and should not trust.
If you have any dignity left then you must show up at the debate. I want all AMR employees to see you get caught up in your lies in a public forum. Then you can retreat and watch you organization now corporation sink. I can not pay you my union dues to tell lies.
I WILL VOTE IAEP FOR THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF MY FAMILY AND COWORKERS.
Didn't I see you in the video. Yep it was you; One of THREE rank and file members that made the decision for 2,361 employees and their families to go to IAEP. Don't say that there was more there because there was not. Jeff Meisner admitted that there were only the 5 of you, but He and Mcglaughlin were on the 250 payroll so they did not count. That leaves 3, along with the hordes of IAEP and 250 staff. I guess you three know best what my family needs don't ya tough guy. Thanks I appreciate it. I would rather have 250 any day than IAEP. Thanks for making my choice for me. I guess that’s how IAEP operates. You must be feeling pretty important to sell your co-workers down the river. At least NEMSA circulated petitions and has brought the entire issue of changing unions to the membership for a vote. What you did was railroad us into the worst EMS union in the country without as much as a discussion with us let alone a vote about it. Thank you Shanoa, for caring for me and my family. I am sure that the 2,360 other people that you made the decision for appreciate too.
"Do all you little "girl's" from Santa Cruz really believe the crap you're saying? It's funny that each of you is so big behind your screen names, and on this type of forum. But when Torren or whomever else is standing in front of you, you coward's can't run away fast enough! To call someone a thief and a liar. Getting real close to getting yourselves into some hot water. See "girls" the civil standard is much less than the criminal standard. Therefore, you can be held liable in civil court much easier than in criminal court."
1. I don't see you revealing who you are behind your 'screen name'...
2. Is that what people you don't agree with are-"girls" Because 'girls' are cowards? Well, there are plenty of 'girls' in this job, and if you don't think 'girls' should make the decisions, then I think its pretty apparent 'girls' better chose IAEP.
3. I really was pretty open minded here, and probably going to vote for NEMSA, but this only makes me more sure of my choice-IAEP.
4. I urge everyone to get out and vote against NEMSA and the macho crap coming from thier supporters. Some of us have families, some of us have $$ to think about, some of us have respect for our co-workers and make choices accordingly.
grow up, you save lives everyday, act like we want people to treat us, like a professional.
As usual, you only see what is within range of the blinders you wear. Were you not told that there were two phone conferences previous to the meeting with over 25 people (representing most of the counties) participating to discuss the merits of the IAEP proposal? How many people were at the meeting for the unveiling of NEMSA? Refer to photos on NEMSA website. Is not this vote the democratic mechanism for members to hear the options and decide what they want?
If you keep whining about this being an option I will be forced to call whine-1-1 for the crier-fighters and whaaa-mbulance for your assistance.
Nihilism- 1. Rejection of all distinctions in moral value 2. The belief that destruction of existing political or social institutions is necessary for future change.
I disagree with STRIFE. I dont think the NEMSA folks are actively promoting Nazism. I think its fairly clear that from the Prez on down that they are Nihilists. And that scares me way more than a Nazi. I mean, say what you will about the tennents of national socialism, at least its an ethos.
The blind and unfounded need to destroy all the progress made thus far in EMS is about as nihilistic as you can get. We recieve no info behind why this destruction is necessary but we are expected to fall in line. Those that dont are met with macho ego posturing due to a lack of the attackers moral value. Its too bad this vote didnt happen back in May. We could have been NEMSA and then soon we would have been transporting for the FD's. And they have a better pension than any EMS union. Vote with you head.
Brad
-- Edited by snake911 at 09:50, 2004-08-27
-- Edited by snake911 at 09:51, 2004-08-27
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"It's time to awake, get up and fight, fight for mankind, live for a cause" The Pilfers
IceMedic, I will have you know that I have directly talked to Torren. I did not run and hide like you say I did. If you were at the meeting in Stockton the other day, you would have seen that. Also, for your information, I am not a little girl from Santa Cruz. I do not need to hide who i am, however, you seem to hide yourself pretty well. If I have a question, I will ask it. If I don't get an answer, I will continue to question. So far I have not recieved any answers, so maybe you should tell your friend Torren to start answering these things.
Dear Nemsa Lover, Weve been not only posting our questions on the nemsa message board (hmm, funny that it suddenly got shut down when an overwhelming support for IAEP got on it) but we have been voicing them physicaly for the last 6 months. We thought the NEMSA message board was for the sole purpose to get questions answered. We do not expect to have NEMSA answer questions for us on the IAEP message board!!!!
How about a copy of their financial plan? How are they going to pay for their bills? How much money is Torren offering these stewards? What leg do they have to stand on that IAEP doesn't? There is a few........ that haven't been answered yet. There are soooo many more.
Was the debate everything you had hoped it would be? Some high paid east coast president who knows (and demonstrated) he knows NOTHING about Northern California? theyWILL have an office in San Francisco, well whoop-ti-doo. They will have to develop a plan??? what, they don't have one for the east coast? they couldn't lead af a similar proposal to present to you? what a load of dung. And Tim (the lawyer) was right, no matter how you twist and turn it. WE need to vote on our representation, I am nobody's present.
And wonder why all over sudden this love between 250 and IAEP/NAGE? Last month they couldn't stand each other! at the leadership conference they were shooting daggers, sitting at seperate tables! Do you sincerely not believe that an order from higher up came that at all costs we need to be retained as members? screw that, I am nobody's pawn. Drug testing and loss of disability benefits, the loss of grievance (so what if you can add a protest, that is not going to do you any good right now!) IAEP/NAGE allows AMR to f*ck with your basic union rights. Well as someone who's been involved with unions and EMS longer than most of you have been alive, I can whole-heartedly tell you: Meet the new union (IAEP), same as the old union(SEIU).
The only way to keep a handle on things is by making NEMSA YOUR union, run by YOU, controlled by YOU. It is an option that allows US to build it from ground zero. Not some large entity to control your moves and micromanage the sh*t out of it. Just the IRS and the department of Labor.
