Isn't it interesting how AMR has tried to keep its pending sale secret?  Up until yesterday afternoon, every management person I spoke with flat out denied that AMR is to be sold.  If I were about to buy a company, I would pay much more for a company where labor was divided and had no contract if force, rather than a company where labor had representation and an existing contract.  AMR clearly wants us to vote in NEMSA.  Think about it...  If we vote in NEMSA, while our working conditions will not immediatley change, AMR, (or our new parent company) can force us to bargain an entirely new contract, and risk losing everything we have gained over the past 10 years.  With IAEP our existing contract with all of its many benefits will remain intact including the right to arbitration. 

Roland Guy

Point of information, NEMSA did not take down the message board. It hit a maxium number of post so it stalled 25,000 to be exact. The webmaster is currently working to get it back up.  Also just so everyone knows NEMSA was voted in by San Mateo County on August 9th. NEMSA has ben certified by the NLRB on Monday Aug 23rd and NEMSA already has a TA with AMR to roll the current contract over. Does anyone think with AMR up for sell that they want a Company that is in negotiations with 2300 members. I dont think so, I am confident the same will happen here, The contract will simply be rolled over until June 30, 2006.

Steve

I wish I had the confidence in AMR that you do, but I don't have that kind of faith in them. I've worked for them for toooo long with and without a union and I know that they can play filthy dirty, especially when you leave the door open like you will if you don't have a concrete contract in place. I don't believe that they will play nice by any means, no matter what they say. I like working for them, don't get me wrong, but I don't trust them any farther then I can throw them.. which isn't very far...

The "unfounded comment" made by Dave Turner... I was in the room with him when he made that comment along with a NEMSA supporter by the name of Jaime and a female shop steward who's name I honestly can't remember..  not to mention the Santa Cruz medic and IAEP rep.As a matter of fact, I'm sure he will remember me because I was taking notes. Dave called after the meeting in Stocktin to ask the Santa Cruz medic if he had really told everyone that he had said that. And then proceeded to back peddle.... "well... let me explain what I actually ment by saying that".. I don't need explainations.. I know what he ment by that comment because the question posed was if the shop stewards had been promised a stipened or paid position if NEMSA was voted in.

And no.. I'm not from Santa Cruz. I went up there as an unbiased observer to see for myself what was really going on, how it worked, what IAEP was really about, and I got more then I bargined for. I've heard all the NEMSA stuff, and I wanted the other side. I would have liked to spend time with NEMSA, but to be honest, I'm convinced from what I've seen by them and the people who support them, that I would not be welcome in their circles because I have a background of working in an IAEP Local and I very much enjoyed it.( not to mention that my ex-shop steward from my division called up there and told everyone incorrectly that I was a "die hard" IAEP supporter) They verbally bash anyone who questiones them or is on the fence... unless you chase them down and wave the white flag.. but even then they are very stand offish. The supporters are vicious. There is a Montery employee who works part time in Santa Clara and he's been threatened verbally and over the pagers by NEMSA supporters because he tends to favor IAEP. He said that he was also chased and nearly run off the road by employees from Santa Clara and is now afraid to go to work because he just bought a new car and is afraid of what they may do to it or him. And NEMSA doesn't say anything to calm their supporters down. It's one thing to be passionate, but aren't we supposed to be professionals here? They just stand there smuggly while their supporters practically spit and pull their hair out, like at the Stockton meeting.

I never said I was from the East Coast.. I honestly don't know why you would have gotten that bug in your ear. I only gave my opinion and suggestions based on what I know from actually working as a member of an IAEP Local. I work in California for AMR in North Hollywood, and if you were really at the meeting at Stockton.. perhaps we met. I know that my opnion has no effect on the vote in Northern California, and it probably doesn't even matter to you, but being as I am from the outside.. I may see things that you don't. You know how they say that if you are in the middle of things.. it's best to at least listen from the outside because they may see something that you don't, even if you don't agree or follow those suggestions/ideas....

And I do apologize for the previous mix up. I thought you were part of IAEP Local 1. I just reread your post and you aren't.. you're from San Joaquin.... But still... you have to admit that my points and suggestions are still valid... even if you don't agree.

Icemedic, I have been doing this for a long time, and I agree with Amy.  I've been in EMS for over 20 years.  I've seen how far companies will go for a buck at the expense of the employees.  You mentioned that a TA has been signed between San Mateo and AMR.  If true, GREAT!  As I stated in a previous post, a group of investors would much rather take over a company where labor is divided and no contract exists.  It makes the company more valuable to a potential buyer and therefore, Laidlaw would stand to make more money.  By signing a TA with approximately 65 paramedics, I personally believe AMR is trying to entice the rest of the 2400 member labor force to vote in NEMSA.  Its simple economics.  It is naive believe AMR would not use San Mateo as a 'lost leader' to get the rest of us to vote NEMSA.

Additionally, IAEP can offer us everything NEMSA can plus more.  We get a union that is solely EMS driven.  The officials are elected, (not self-appointed like NEMSA), Our contract and all of its benefits remain intact, including the right to arbitration.  The Taft-Hartly health plan will remain in force.  There is no risk of losing anything we have gained over the past ten years.  I cannot risk my career and livelyhood for the unknown of NEMSA.

Roland Guy

I agree. I do hope that everyone can "get along" once this is all over. I know that our division is not nearly has charged as it is up north.

I do respect you Carlos... but I over heard at the Stockton meeting from a group of employees that "that girl that's taking notes is the girl that Carlos told us about.. She's a die hard IAEP supporter".. I don't know what to make of it except for what I heard... what would you make of it.. And as I stated in my email to you..... I went as an unbiased obeserver.. and that's exactly what I did.. I rarely said anything to anyone.. you can even ask Torren. He didn't like me taking notes at his meeting or listening in on him.. I heard his snide comments .." slow down.. Amy has to write this down".. but I only wrote down because it helps me to remember and that way I can refresh my memory instead of letting it fade... I'll be happy to discuss with you anything you like. I went as an unbiased oberver and will give any information out that is asked for unbiasedly... of course I do have my own opinions. but I don't think that I have to give them when passing out info.... it's sells itself in my eyes.. as I'm sure it does in yours. I do have the utmost respect for you and like I said.. I'll be happy to talk with you about anything you like. I know that you are more reasonable than some of the people that I observed and I'm sure that we can behave as the professionals that we are.

I'm also glad to see that you have the dignity to say that nomatter who wins.... you will support them.. I too feel that way..... May the best man ( union) win!

There you go again Carlos....

Everyone, meet Carlos Osorio. He is a sell-out from North Hollywood AMR. Carlos walked away from 250 when they refused to give him the 75k position that he demanded. After leaving 250 and all of the people that were depending on him to fight their grievences, he called his friend Torren. Torren has offered him a paying position with NEMSA when, and if, they come into power. Carlos has also stated that NEMSA pays him through his side business to make hats, pens, shirts, etc. You see, Carlos stands to make a great deal of money when NEMSA comes to his area. Carlos also rips IAEP even though they helped him when his area went on strike (he admits this on the 250 site). Carlos fights so hard for NEMSA because he plans to make money off of all his fellow employees. Yes, as I stated in another post, I plan to return to the field after medic school, I just want to get the info to prepare myself when this fight comes to my area (the area that I have 3 years in). Have fun Carlos being a NEMSA rep, I mean EMPLOYEE. 

Look, I don't want this to turn into a bash fest. You and I fighting with each other will not solve anything. I don't care what deals you have or don't have. Bashing me because I am not on an ambulance right now is not important either. What is truely ironic is that I was going to work at your division around this time last year but refused because I wanted to go back to my old area. Anyway, let's bash out the facts about NEMSA and IAEP. This is what is going to answer questions and solve the issues at hand. Everybody here can say whatever they want about me but is it really going to help? No. But, attacking Torren personally has its justification because this is the person has the potential to represent you and everyone else. I am not pro any union. I think what 250 did is terrible, but when NEMSA went on the warpath against IAEP, I took a second look.

Carlos, let's have a truce. You don't know me and I don't even know you or what you even look like? Again, attack my facts and statements. When you have the urge to attack me, research that much harder and put the slap down with some facts. If you have dirt on IAEP, show it. You won't get booted here. Everything that I posted on the NEMSA site was from here and my contacts. If NEMSA truely has nothing to hide, why was I booted???

Peace dude

~Driver

quote:

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Originally posted by: 911Driver
"Here is a question to all of you NEMSA people out there: Torren states that the IAEP/SEIU Service Agreement is ILLEGAL. According to the Agreement, it took effect August 20th. So in that case, ALL of you are that are still with SEIU are now being represented by IAEP. I don't see Torren raising a red flag??? What is the deal?? ~Driver"

---

You're right, but again if this was your business people might listen to you! Go away, go finish school. Let the real EMS people handle our business.

Ice

Now here is a person that makes sence. You never call someone a lier that you never met. I will agree with that. Now 911 driver if want to talk about contracts then lets look at North Hollywood/Glendale. Yes by the way I did nagoiate this contract and went on strike twice for it. I can tell you that our contract is alot better then Local 187/77 was. We made over $3,500 a year more then them. That's not including the following

            SEIU Glendale                                             IAEP 187/77

$200.00 driving bonus every 8 weeks                               NO

$60.00 a month bilingal pay                                            NO

$30.00 payroll error                                                       NO

$5.00 call bonus after 3 calls                                           NO

$280.00 speacial assingment pay a month                          NO

1 hour paid if misses C-7                                             NO whats a C-7

45 minutes C-7                                                               Nope

Daily overtime                                                                  yes

.5 premium pay for holdover                                                NO

1 1/2 hr manatory holdover                                            L.A division 3 hrs

PTO new employee cash out 6 months                               1 year

2 raises a year    6.5%                                                   1 a year

Those are some example of the difference between Glendale and L.A 187/AV 77 contract. If you don't belive me ask to see the last contract book. Yes I know that the new one is still being nagoiated still. But I can bet that they still don't have any of what we have as stated above.

 So let agree not to trash talk each other anymore on the website. You see 911 I'm not afraid to say who I am. I want people to ask me question on IAEP and NEMSA. You see I have delt with both union as a steward and have friends who belong to both unions.

 I look forward to the day we meet in person. I will buy you a drink (beer/soda) and we can figure out what the real story behind the storys that have been said.

                                   Carlos

Carlos, I do have a few questions for you, and I'm not "attacking" you. .I just feel these should be answered

I understand the moral reasons for walking away from being a cheif shop steward, and I do commend you on that, however, you did have a responsibility to the people that you represented to stay the course. You openly admit that you feel that SEIU is not up to the task of taking care of greivences, and yet you dumped them all on them. Then you trash everyone up and down that they are not doing as good a job as you can or could do. I don't understand how it is that you believe that no matter what union is voted in, that you will be the representative for the members. You do have to be voted into the position do you not? And you've already proved to the memebers that you will walk away as soon as you think that you're not being treated fairly by the union. Correct me if I'm wrong, but life isn't fair. You were voted in to represent people and then you abandoned them. You say that the shop stewards still contact you because SEIU doesn't know what they are doing.... why did you leave them to fend for themselves if you didn't think that SEIU couldm't take care of them and the members?

Also, you're right, the contract you negotiated is good. And you negotiated it last year. And IAEP supported you when you went on strike to get that contract. They didn't have to do anything to lift a finger to help you, but they did..... and you say that you have all these contacts with IAEP reps... how come you only talk about IAEP like it is the worst thing ever instead of giving info unbiasedly.. you preach about how NEMSA is going to be great for EMS, and maybe it will.. but don't you have a responsibility to give both sides? But, then, as you've admitted, Torren has offered you a position if they are voted in..and of course I don't blame for saying you'll take it... but doesn't that just prove that you cannot be unbiased on this issue?

Good lord Carlos.. you do talk in circles....

Have I or have I not said on more than one occasion that I understand why you quit as the chief shop steward? I know you still work there.  All I ask is why you are so gun ho to get NEMSA in if you don't want to have anything to do with the union? You stepped down and left the grievences with someone that you feel is inadequate for the job, I understand that you "brought him up to date" but keep in mind that the reason for having a chief shop steward is because he is supposed to fight for these grievences on the local level. The "representative", ie Hawk, takes care of the entire Southern California SEIU and IAEP unions. I'm not saying that is an excuse, but that is why there are chief shop stewards in place, to take care of the members at a fast and efficient rate. You stepped down and now there is nobody in that spot to take care of buisness, but you continue to stamp your feet and make all this noise. You're the one who left your post, so don't pitch a fit if you don't like the results. Spending time with your family is of course important.. but it doesn't give you the right to stand on the hill and preach your message when you don't even want to play the game. You can't have your cake and eat it too Carlos. And for the record.. I have not once called you for any reason that has to do with the union. A girl I worked with called about an issue that had to do with pay, and if I had wanted to persue it I would have. But I didn't and never contacted you for that or any other reason.

As to the reason why we don't get paid as much as Ventura county AMR employees.. That's a very interesting story. First of all, Ventura AMR is a mutual aid. They have a LOT more bargining power then we. We sling gomes from Hospital to con home and back again. We work entirely differently. Secondly, as it was explained to me from your "good friend" at Local 187, in Los Angeles County, we, as private ambulance employees, have to register with the DOT as taxi drivers, therefore our base pay is the same as taxi drivers...which is around minimum wage. The fire fighters and ER techs get to register as Health Sevices. So their base rate is a lot higher then ours. This is a bill that was passed. The unions can not change this bill. It completely sucks and is a load of BS, that there it is. Remember when you went to DOT to get your license to drive in Los Angeles.. did you notice that everyone there was either a taxi driver or bus driver. We are considered such in the eyes of LA County. Crap isn't it.

And yes.. as I said before I left in the email that I sent you.. IAEP did invite me to come up and see for myself what is going on. I said that I was going up as an unbiased observer and did just that. I sat in on talks and meetings and got a taste of what they are really about. I said that I was all for NEMSA when it was against SEIU, but since it was now against IAEP I was on the fence. I have worked in contracts were IAEP was the union and in one Local I enjoyed it very much, the other.. it was a nightmare because of the Local pres being a sell out to the company. That is not the unions fault, that is the interm pres that noone will stand up against and demand a vote. IAEP did pay for my room, ticket, and meals because they thought it was important that I see for myself them and NEMSA in action. If they hadn't paid for me, I would not have been able to go and all we would have had in Glendale is your opinion and idea about which union to go with. Now we have two... and I have acutally seen with my own eyes both parties in action. Have you? Or have you just had Torren chirping in your ear over the phone for the last few months? Have you seen IAEP working up there? Or are you basing it what you think you know down here. I thought I knew a lot about IAEP and I actually worked with them and consider some of the reps to be very close friends, as a matter of fact, some of them have actually been my partners. But for all that I thought I knew, now I know more. Searching for information to make an educated decision and giving that info out to anyone who asks, that does not make me a "sell out". I was on the fence when I left and had no real idea which way to go, forming my opinions based on the experience I had watching NEMSA work, listening to No. Cal. employee's worries, concerns, and views, listening with an open mind to a new option... what is wrong with that? I'm still open to all info that NEMSA dishes out, just as with IAEP. I was a due's paying member to IAEP for 5 years Carlos..... and as a curtesy they offered an invitation that I never got from NEMSA. Have you been invited by them to observe them in action? If so.. what did you see? Share that with us won't you. Unlike you, however, I have not and have never been offered any kind of position with IAEP, ever. I have absolutly nothing to gain. You have openly said that Torren has offered you a postition if and when they are voted in. I still have the email Carlos. I have it in writing. I don't base my actions on what IAEP says, what they "tell me", nothing. I have worked under them before and have faith in them. I do not have faith in NEMSA, but if they were our union, then they would be our union. You have also openly stated that you do buisness with Torren through your silk screening buisness. Do you or do you not have money to make if NEMSA is voted in? Note, I have not said that if you do, I think less of you. You have a family to raise.. but don't hide behind that fact to justify your actions.

And you are correct.. Local 187 has had a contract longer then Local 77.. but you did do a comparison with Local 77's contract with your own did you not? IAEP has been around since 1992. Each Local negotiates it's own contract based on what the members want. As with what NEMSA promises, the more contracts that you negotiate with that division, the better the contract will be. When you start from nothing ( as NEMSA will if voted in) then you do the best you can with what you get. I believe that Local 77's contract was pretty good for when it was put into affect 5 years ago. I was there before there was union, so what we got was beyond our dreams. Now it is outdated and is in negotiations again. This time the eboard has more experience and can negotiate a better contract.. within the limits as I described above. We do not work in Ventura County or Santa Barbara county. We do not do what they do. We will not get a contract like that. If you want something better, go where you can get it. NEMSA will not get you the contract that Ventura has. They can't. If we walked off the job, big deal. AMR will just put the calls on extended ETA, call the surrounding counties and continue with buisness.. for a time of course. If Ventura or Santa Barbara or San Bernadino walked off the job (which they would never do because they realize the consequences to the community if they did) it would spell disaster. We don't have that kind of power in our divsion.

As for being a shop steward... I would consider it in the future. As of next week however, I will be going to paramedic school and will be devoting much of my time to it.. but afterwards.. there is always the possibility.... By they way.. the comment about "being concerned for their future"... as you have demonstated.. I don't have to be a shop steward for that.